Newfie

You're quoting KJV

NIV translates as
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

and ESV uses the word "calamity" instead of "evil." Clearly the writers didn't mean moral evil with this, but I guess you could say that God creates natural evils. Granted, that doesn't seem to faze many folks in West Virginia.

show_no_mercy

Differentiating between "moral" evil and "natural" evil (disasters) is a distinction of modern theodicy. This distinction didn't exist 2,500 years ago - natural disasters were the result of "moral" evil.

John Kesler

You may want to see this post, which shows that "evil" is the more likely rendering. The NIV isn't a translation that I would rely on, since its translators freely admit that they are committed biblical inerrantists:


I assume that this comment is related to the latest mine tragedy, but I'm not sure of your point.

Newfie

Wasn't the understanding of the time that God does not commit moral evil, as moral evil describes that which was an affront to God? The only moral obligation that God subjected himself to in scripture was to be Israel's god, which he offered in return for obedience (moral righteousness), and he kept this obligation according to the narrative. The chosen, on the other hand, often failed to keep their end of the bargain and God sent natural evils to punish them.

As you stated natural disasters were the result of "moral" evil, but it's a cause and effect relationship between separate things.

Newfie

They're begging for God's mercy and looking for a miracle, to be spared from His wrath. Meanwhile, God saves 115 miners in communist, atheist China?!

Maybe it just doesn't happen, it's not seen as newsworthy, or it is seen as being in bad taste, but I don't see too many people losing their faith over these God-sent disasters.

show_no_mercy

The understanding was that "moral evil" is simply a failure to follow god's commandments. The word that our word "sin" derives from -- in both ancient Greek and Hebrew -- means to fail. God very well can't fail to follow his own commandments. He's not subject to his own commandments!

It's sort of the might-makes-right idea.

Loomis

This part of FRDB is for discussing Biblical Criticism & History. If you have come here to discuss current events or to share your personal feelings and understanding about God (and His son Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior) then you have come to the wrong place.

Please be a good little Christian. Jesus will love you even more when you obey the rules. Stay focused. Lets discuss Biblical Criticism & History – not why, when, or if Christians lose their faith over current events.

Are you up for the challenge? If not, get out.

Loomis

The god in Isaiah 45:7 is named Yahweh.

(I am) the one who forms light and creates darkness;

the one who brings about peace and creates evil.

I am Yahweh, who accomplishes all these things.

Have you ever noticed that Israel is named Israel, and not Israyah?

Have you ever noticed that Israel is named after a Canaanite god named El?

Why do you suppose the author of Isaiah 45:7 wrote it?

What was he trying to say?

What was his motive for writing it?

Who was his audience? Who was he addressing?

What problem was he trying to solve?

Why was his statement necessary?

Newfie

El is a Canaanite god, and to some degree maybe became synonymous with the word "god", but the more important question is to what degree the Hebrews were Canaanite to begin with.

But that's off topic. YHWH claims in this passage that he brings about the good times and the bad. The argument is that everything bad that can happen to a person is ultimately created by YHWH. The tornado and the rapist alike. Whatever you consider an evil to your existence ultimately comes from YHWH. Thus, all that befalls Job is sent by YHWH, and he sends foreign powers to punish his chosen people for their evil ways.

Still, isn't it understood that the people freely choose to disobey YHWH, and that they bring disaster upon themselves? That's why I was musing over the coal miner's ability to keep their faith in light of the general belief held by some that God must have sent it as some kind of punishment. Sorry if that offended you in any way. I just find this response quite puzzling.

Loomis

It’s not an argument. It’s an assertion. You should learn the difference.

Why is he saying it? Fathom to guess? Do you ever think about this stuff?

What do you suppose provoked him?

Could it be this?

Genesis 3:5
“You will be like gods who know good and evil.”

Genesis 3:22
“The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.”

Put yourself in Yahweh’s shoes. If you wanted to be Israel’s only god what would you do about those other annoying gods in Genesis 3:5 and 3:22?




The stuff about making good and evil seems to be secondary. Read Isaiah 45 in context. The author is saying something more important. Look at this:

5 I am Yahweh, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.

6 … there is none besides me. I am Yahweh, and there is no other.

7 … I, Yahweh, do all these things.

8 … I, Yahweh, have created it.

12 It is I who made the earth…

14 …Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.

18 …I am Yahweh, and there is no other.

21 …there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

22 …I am God, and there is no other.

Call me a nut but it looks to me like the central theme of Isaiah 45 is monotheism.

Wuddia think? Am I losing my mind? Am I being unreasonable?

And here’s the 64,000 Dollar Question: Is "Yahweh" badmouthing Genesis 3:5 or 3:22? :constern02:

If not then what provoked the author of Isaiah 45:7 to assert that Yahweh made the good and created the evil?