jdlongmire

Actually, Christians that follow Sola Scriptura should be guided to "Test everything. Hold on to the good." 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and "...be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves" Matthew 10:16. Nowhere in Scripture does God demand that we not examine reality, just that we not try and control (test) Him by demanding that He reveal Himself to us on our own terms. Just because one chooses to filter data through his/her worldview that presupposes God's existance is no worse than atheist's filtering reality through a naturalist worldview. Ultimately it is "Goddidit" or "Goddidntdoit", and one must be prepared to live with the consequences of being right or wrong.

blt to go

jdlongmire - interesting you should use the phrase sola scriptura Which Scripture? Part of the reform theology was to remove part of the scripture of the catholic church, i.e., the Apocrypha.

Biff the unclean is correct in stating:Why is the Holy Bible used by Reform theology sola scriptura?

Why isn't the letter of Christ (as attested to by Eusebius) part of scripture? Surely Jesus was inspired? Is it because it is a forgery?

Then if you eliminate forgeries, aren't some of Paul's letters forgeries? and Peter's? And John's? And probably Matthew?

And why is Peter not inspired when he writes a gospel, but (according to tradition) John Mark is inspired when he writes down what Peter says?

And if John Mark's only qualification as authoratative is that he traveled with Paul, why isn't the Epistle of Barnabas included?

Perhaps, as Biff the unclean states, this is not wilful ignorance, but simple ignorance. So the better question would be, jdlongmire, if sola scriptura why is the church so afraid to teach its attendees the OTHER writings, and the development of the canon as we now have it?

Sven

Nice strawman. Jebernier didn't ask for god interfering in every decision of mankind - just for some little adjustment to prevent the torturing of tens of millions of people.

So what? You still haven't explained why this amount of suffering is even necessary.

Yes, especially a spirit which is burning in hell for all eternity
Hell isn't compatible with a loving god, regardless how much you twist the meaning of words.

Since you don't believe that god interfers with the lifes of humans (if I understood correctly), these things could happen nevertheless to you. And after you died, you could very well suffer in hell for all eternity. I really have no idea why this seems to be a better perspective for you.
Either way, simply wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.

Sven

Since most people in former communist countries "shut out god", this should be testable easily. Care to stand up to your belief and present some data?

You forgot one point: Atheists don't have gatherings usually. And since humans are "social animals", it's no wonder if those people feel better who meet regularly each week. This point is much more important than the red herrings you raised.

jbernier

Hmmmm...that is not what Ecclesiastes would say...

This would be next to impossible to perform. First off, it would be very difficult to generate a random sample when you are looking for something as specific as "religious belief" and if it is not a random than the data would be meaningless. And define "devout Christians": Both words are problematic. Does "devout" mean church attendance, particular doctrinal position, scripture reading, what? Your definition is going to largely decide your results. Then how do you go about "assessing" their mental well-being? This cannot be done as quantitative research, I think.

That all having been said, I have for a long time thought about a qualitative research project that I would love to do. I might have done it as a Ph.D. dissertation if I had stayed in anthropology and not moved to religious studies at the graduate level. I would love to look at cultural barriers to mental health care among Christian fundamentalists and/or charismatics. If you subscribe to an ideology which diagnoses psychiatric illness as spiritual disorders or what have you you are more likely to seek out treatment in your religious community. However most churches are ill-prepared to deal with someone with depression, bipolar, schizophrenia or what have you. The medical community has much better success rates with treating such illnesses. In short I hypothesize that fundamentalism and charismaticism very often pose a barrier to mental well-being in those who suffer from mental illness.

jdlongmire

oooo....I knew popping in would lead to this!

The answer to all this is fairly easy if one can accept that the canon was closed supernaturally... ...but I guess that is my ignorance talking...my experience with knowledge mangement and scholarship has led me to believe anyone searching to be convinced of anything can find scholarly, authoritative data to do so.

Besides, one can only surmise the criterion for the canon inclusion, since the original compilers are long gone, but, as for me and my house...

LUK 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

EPH 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

REV 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2TI 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

...besides, what do the other texts really add? I mean, besides fodder for folk to quibble over...its about faith and practice...

Nice Scholarly Article

jdlongmire

from blt's link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura

I would certainly agree with that statement!

The quandry is that man tends to go to extremes...ultimate authority resides with God...God is love...love thy neighbor...it seems so simple...

blt to go

Surely you are not surprised that someone read your post and responded to it? (Sorry for calling you "Shirley")
I would respectfully disagree. Might I recommend as a good starting pointthis essay?

Before I respond, have you read the other texts? Start with the Epistle of Barnabas. The bit condeming abortion would be hard to explain as not "adding" anything!

Mary.

First, I want to agree with this wholeheartedly. In my conversations with one particularly evangelical Xian I know, she would take any given passage either literally or figuratively or ignore it completely, depending entirely on what she wanted the text to say, despite the actual context or common sense. But any proof-text I offered to support my points, she said *I* was always taking it out of context, or that I had the wrong translation, or something.

Anyway, I wanted to offer my favorite biblical contradiction:

2 SAM 24 says God incited David to take a census of the people
I CHRON 21 says that Satan incited David to take the census

Can't get more contradictory than that.

Mary.
God Is Smiling On Me
The God of Coincidence

Mageth

There's an explanation for that contradiciton, though it doesn't get rid of the contradiction.

2 Samuel was written before the Exile (to Babylon), and thus before the concept of the duality of God vs. Satan was introduced into Hebrew mythology from Zoroastrianism. God, therefore, did the bad stuff as well as the good; Satan was not yet available.

I Chronicles was written after the Exile; the dualistic concept of God vs. Satan, the war in Heaven and all that goes along with it was co-opted from Zoroastrianism during the Exile. Therefore, Satan was available to take the blame for the bad stuff.

(Note that the first two chapters of Job are post-Exilic additions to the pre-exilic story of Job).