seethelight

So a catastrophic (for lack of a better word) flood could't convince humans to change their sinful ways, but brutally murdered Jewish man could? :huh:

DaMan121

But remember EVERYONE in the world got killed! Its tough to learn a lesson when your dead.

Classical

Everybody in the world got killed except for those a few verses later who lived in the great nations of the earth that Noah's sons went to.

And they say the bible has no contradictions? :huh:

River

The Qur'an states that Noah's flood was REGIONAL and confined only to the Community of Noah . The Qur'an also states that Jesus Christ (pbuh) was NOT crucified, nor did he die for the Sins of hu-manity.

Arctish

Eric H, I read your entire post, and came away with one answer. You ask:

The greatest thing I can think of would be a future he does not already know.

Everything else in your post points to god's omninarcissism, from creating people in his own image, to devising a grandiose plan to "forgive us our sins" (which he created himself and created us to commit), to giving us " freedom to love God the creator unconditionally". That isn't the greatest thing a creator god can do, it's just the most self indulgent.

seethelight

Ah, so God tries a more restrained punishement.

thebeave

The Qur'an actually is making a bit of sense here. It is reasonably certain that there was a massive regional flooding thousands of years ago when the Meditteranean Sea broke through a natural dam and created the Black Sea as we know it today. Some believe this actual event is the inspiration for the ancient flood stories, like the Noah flood and the Epic of Gilgamesh. And of course Jesus did not die for the sins of humanity, and very possibly, never was crucified at all. Gulp...maybe the Qur'an is true after all...

*throws out the porkchops and booze, wraps towel around head*

Ierrellus

This thread is a fun read.

John Milton (intellect gone fuzzy) prefaced his PARADISE LOST with the statement that the work was to "justify God's ways to Man."

A. E. Housman responds, "Malt does more than Milton can/ to justify God's ways to Man."

Here we have a cosmic battle between Titans, God and Lucifer. How did I, a mere mortal get caught up in this extraterrestrial conflict. And, "felix culpa"??? Why should I be made sick in order to be healed? I'd just as soon skip the whole thing and have another beer.

Ierrellus

Tom Sawyer

I've always held to the opinion that all the Flood stories really had nothing to do with a flood at all. I think it was more people finding fossilized fish bones and the like lying around in fields and mountains and they quite correctly deduced that for those to get there, the area must have once been underwater. Not knowing anything about continental drift, but "knowing" that weather is caused by the Gods, they assumed that the Gods flooded the whole place at one point. It was probably an excellent scientific analysis, based on the knowledge they had at the time. That leaves them to figure out why the Gods did this and how the people and animals they see these days survived it. Put two and two together and you've got the story of Noah.

No regional flood is necessary and all the attempts to find the origins of the Flood stories sound more to me like attempts to hamfist some pretty shaky evidence into a pre-existing notion. So don't worry, the Qur'an is still completely wrong.

Eric H

Hello Gemma
This freedom to love God gives us the freedom to be an atheist, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, and anything else we choose to be, we don’t have to love God back.
In the same kind of way I love my kids; I would hope they love me. When they have grown up and leave home, I can’t prevent them from being serial killers that is their choice. When people have a real freedom from their parents or creator they can do as they choose.
If my son did grow up to be a serial killer would I still love him? That has to be a tough question, I hope I would still love him but I would expect him to be locked up so he could not kill again.
If God has created us with a real freedom knowing that any one of us could be a serial killer, then it makes more sense to me that he would also be able to forgive us for using our freedom in this way.

Peace

Eric