Johnny Skeptic

At http://www.tektonics.org/uz/zeketyre.html, James Holding says:

What difference does it make who "they" were? Ezekiel 26:3 says "Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up." Why does Holding discount the possibility that Ezekiel 26:3 was added to the prophecy after Nebby failed to conquer the mainland settlement and went home? Since kingdoms have a habit of rising and falling, it is not difficult to accurately predict that a kingdom will eventually fall. Ezekiel referred to Nebby as a "king of kings." Such a term does not indicate failure. It would not make any sense to use the term to describe a king who would fail.

If the Tyrians knew about the prophecy, it is interesting to note that many of the inhabitants of the island settlement and many of their descendants died of natural causes assuming that Ezekiel's God was not able to defeat them even with the help of a king of kings.

sugarhitman

The critics keep saying that the prophecy of Tyre is a failure. This is not true. They and bible scholars alike have paid no attention to the two very different judgements that God has pronounced against Tyre. Namely the "I will make you like the top of a rock; you shall be a place to spread nets UPON; you shall be built no more. And "When I shall make you a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall BRING UP THE DEEP UPON YOU, AND GREAT WATERS SHALL COVER YOU." This last judgement is the burial of Tyre beneath the sea.

So how can Tyre both be a "place to spread nets upon" and be buried in the sea? You cannot spread nets on an island that is buried under the sea. So how can God punish Tyre with these two conflicting judgements? Simple, Tyre was indeed a island and mainland city. The mainland is a place for fishing none of its ancient structures are no where to be found....except maybe in the causeway layed by Alexander. Also critics refuse to accept the fact that when God said many nations should come against Tyre he meant just that and not some "Babylonian multi-national force." God said "They shall lay (build) your stones and your timber and your dust in the midst of the water." Note he didnt say throw these materials in the water he said lay. Lay is used to signify build or the use of these materials to build. Alexander did just that to build the causeway to reach the island city during his campaign against Tyre. And he used rubble from the MAINLAND NOT THE ISLAND. Making it like the top of a rock. This act proves two things that there was a mainland city and that 'THEY' was not a reference to Nebuchadnezzar, but other nations who would come against Tyre in different times just like the waves of the sea.

Critics says that Babylon was supposed to utterly destroy Tyre. But according to other Jewish Prophets Babylon was not to be the end of Tyre. In Jeremiah 27 Tyre is listed as one of those nations that would SERVE Babylon: "Thus says the Lord to me: ' Make for yourselves bonds and yokes (symbols of servitude), and put them on your neck, and send them to the king of Edom, the king of Moab, the king of the Ammonites, THE KING OF TYRE......I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servent (I.E. the performer of his will)....so ALL nations shall serve him and his son and his son's son until the time of the land comes.' Tyre did serve Babylon. In Jere.25:12 Babylon was to rule for seventy years. In Isaiah 23:17 He says:" And it shall come to pass AFTER THE END OF SEVENTY YEARS, that the Lord will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth." After the seventy years of Babylonian rule Tyre was to return to her previous ways. In Jeremiah 25 his prophecy of Armegeddon an end time global war centered around Israel guess who is also mentioned? Tyre. Scriptures are clear on this Babylon was not to destroy Tyre as many critics wrongly believe.

And the question for critics to answer is this: If Babylon (as they suppose) was to destroy Tyre and this total destruction was to happen during this war. Then how can Tyre be turned into a place for spreading nets on and be buried in the sea at the same time? No matter how fancy and long their arguments are or if they are sholars or posses some elite degree this question will destroy their interprtations of this prophecy. Because all it takes is common sense to know you cannot fish and spread nets on something that is buried deep beneath the sea. These are clearly separate judgements. One against mainland Tyre (fulfilled) and the latter against island Tyre (not fulfilled....yet).


Critics are purposedly deluding thenselves about this prophecy, because it proves that the judgement of God is very very real. Tyre (mainland) and the destruction of other nations whose ruins lay scattered throughout the earth, serves as a warning and witness to all nations and kingdoms.....The judgement of God is coming.

Amaleq13

Even accepting your "two fates" interpretation, we are still left with the plainly false prediction "you shall be built no more". Tyre exists today exactly where you need it to have been built no more.

xaxxat

If you think Tyre doesn't exist anymore, just ask the Israelis who bombed it not too long ago...

Minimalist

The Tyre Chamber of Commerce might have a word to say about the truthfulness of biblical prophecies!

http://tyros.leb.net/tyre/




The place seems to be doing quite well....in spite of 'god.'

Sven

Well, if you think that these are two prophecies, I don't see how this helps you. Since neither one of these happened, you now have two failed prophecies instead of one failed one. :wave:

sugarhitman

These two prophecies proves that Tyre was a two part kingdom. You cannot spread nets on an sea covered island. These two judgements cannot happen to one city. The mainland has indeed become like the top of a rock, a place for fishing never to be rebuilt again. This also serves a warning to island Tyre which will be buried under the sea....because of its hostility to Israel. Critics like to post photos of modern Tyre and say "here it is" "look its doing fine" yeah I see island Tyre but where is mainland Tyre?

sugarhitman

sven you all are only fooling yourselves. The scriptures i mentioned proves that Tyre was both a mainland and island city. You keep talking about failed prophecies but that prophecy spoken against Old Tyre has come true. It is now like the top of a rock a place for spreading nets which was fulfilled when Alex used its rubble to build the causeway. The only part not yet fulfilled is the buriel of island Tyre beneath the sea. Two failed prophecies? No one has been fulfilled the other is sure to happen....you can bet that.

Minimalist

http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/e...tm/ii.xxii.htm



Must kill you guys to have such an obvious failure of your god staring you in the face.

Maybe the Israelis will nuke it for you so you won't have to look at it.

makerowner

First, I'd like to quote the text here. This is the RSV translation:

It clearly says that Tyre will be destroyed, and distinguishes the latter from "her daughters on the mainland". It also clearly states that Nebuchadrez'zar would destroy it. I don't think any amount of weaseling can make that seem true.
BTW, the "spreading of nets" is a place "in the midst of the sea": the prediction is that people would take boats out into the sea and cast their nets in the same place that Tyre used to be.