FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-08-2007, 03:32 PM   #141
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apologist55 View Post
spin

Quote:
The issues you mentioned cannot be adequately dealt with with one-liners. You should read those modern scholarly commentaries to get the depth of the argumentation. I can easily respond to your quibbling, but each of the issues is long and complex and would be better handled by your interest, not your apologetic zeal.
You and I know that those who have a better than average understanding of the profundities of a subject often draw conclusions which are in diametric opposition to the conclusions of their peers. Perhaps you could advise me of those whom you deem worthy of consideration?
I'm confident that any recent scholarly rather than devotional commentaries will help you. Start with ones on the pastoral letters.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:23 PM   #142
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post
Quote:
Constantine's views were anti-Judaic and anti-Hellenic.
Constantine's views were intolerantly pro-Christian.
Why?
He had just invested in a fabrication of literature
to be associated with his own new religion (he was
after all "Pontifex Maximus") and, at the same time,
he was a military supremacist, with a big and very
victorius army. He did his own thing for plunder.

He was a robber. Greedy for money and power.
The Eastern Empire was the prize. He took it.
He plundered the ancient temples and traditions.
He had the new and strange religion to help
him in this holy flaming quest.

Quote:
Which version of xianity?

The Boss'. (His own version! "Yes Boss", Of course Boss)


Quote:
If he explicitly worshipped sol invictus and passed the edict of Milan - about religious freedom - how is he anti "pagan"?

I read the Edict of Milan as the first time Christianity
had ever been publicised in the empire. Read the
edict of Milan for the propaganda of Constantine.
The Edict of Milan is the entry point of Christianity
into the history books. IMO.

The entry point does not exhibit intolerance.
All looks to be in order, but behind the scenes
Constantine is gathering his army to take the east.

Milan c.311 is the preface to the storm to follow.
The pivotal point is the (Ahem) "Council of Antioch"
which preceeded the (Ahem) "Council" of Nicaea.


Additionally, interesting quotes concerning Helena.
There is a great deal more information revealed about
Helena via numismatic study of Constantine's coins.

Best wishes,


Pete
mountainman is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:24 PM   #143
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
They'd be more specific.
Sweeping condemnations are common enough in the prophets:
Ah, sinful nation,
a people loaded with guilt,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the LORD;
they have spurned the Holy One of Israel
and turned their backs on him.--Isaiah 1:4
No Robots is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:36 PM   #144
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,230
Default

You do have a point, but it's about 7 centuries too late.
Magdlyn is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:38 PM   #145
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Robots View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarai View Post
I've seen people question whether the authors of the Gospels were Jewish
Well, then, please do cite a few.
Was Constantine Jewish?


Pete
mountainman is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 04:41 PM   #146
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
You do have a point, but it's about 7 centuries too late.
The point is that the anti-Jewish rhetoric of the NT has its root in the prophetic rhetoric of the OT.
No Robots is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:11 PM   #147
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 1,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
But there seemed to be quite a bit of competition or xenophobia between Galileeans and Judaeans.
Hi Magdyln I think you're on to something here. After Solomon's death, the people protested to his successor, Rehoboam, about heavy taxation and forced military service. Rehoboam refused to address their concerns, and 10 tribes split off and formed the Kingdom of Israel, including the area of Galilee. Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, in the south, stayed loyal to the House of David. The Kingdom of Israel was taken by Assyria in 722 BCE and its population deported and spread throughout the Assyrian Empire.

If I remember correctly the Galilee had no direct connection again with Jerusalem until Hyrcanus took the Galilee in around 100 BCE. That's a long time separate!

Sarai
Sarai is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 05:42 PM   #148
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,230
Default

Hey Sarai,

Yes. And if you take the view, as I do, that the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel were never really united to begin with (the power of Solomon being greatly exaggerated by the Judaean elite scribes of the court of Josiah, 7th cent BCE) it gets even more interesting.
Magdlyn is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 06:59 PM   #149
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 1,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Hey Sarai,

Yes. And if you take the view, as I do, that the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel were never really united to begin with (the power of Solomon being greatly exaggerated by the Judaean elite scribes of the court of Josiah, 7th cent BCE) it gets even more interesting.
Interesting? That's an understatement! I'm kind of thinking out loud here, because I don't know that I remember this ancient history (from way back in Hebrew School) very well. Assyria is predominantly Baal worshipping, do I remember that correctly? The Israelite inhabitants were deported and resettled throughout the Assyrian empire, while the population of other overrun kingdoms were transplanted to what had been the northern kingdom, Israel. So the population at the time of the Isaiah quote that No Robots has kindly provided is directed to a population that is not predominantly made up of "native" Israelites or their progeny.

What are the implications of this for the harangues of the prophets against the "children of Israel"? Are they proselytizing? Given that almost all gods at the time were considered local, are they trying to import a "foreign" god into a place not associated with that god?

Boy, I need to do some reading about Assyria. I just don't remember enough...Thanks, Magdyln, I was really hoping to sleep tonight!

Sarai
Sarai is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:03 PM   #150
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 1,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarai View Post
...Thanks, Magdyln, I was really hoping to sleep tonight!
I'm sorry I misspelled your name--see, I do need that sleep!

Sarai
Sarai is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:13 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.