Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 09-03-2005, 09:46 AM

1 Samuel 17:40 says "And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine." If four stones wouldn't have been enough to kill Goliath, why would David have assumed that a fifth stone would have killed Goliath? In addition, why did he assume that one stone wouldn't have killed Goliath? Further, the Philistines were not in the least bit deterred from continuing to oppose the Jews by tooth and claw for decades to come.

Amusingly, in his book titled 'The Signature of God,' Canadian pastor and author Grant Jeffrey said that when he was a teen-ager, God told him that David took fives stones to fight Goliath because Goliath had four brothers.

spin · 09-03-2005, 11:10 AM

This passage is deeply allegorical, referring to the five stones which had sympathy for the devil. Doo-doo. Goliath, of course, were the record companies which wanted to take control of music back from the dregs of hippy riff-raffdom. Doo-doo. The Philistines are the listening public who buy Britney and Christina, Ricky Martin, boy bands, hip-hop and Eminem in no preferred order. Doo-doo. The Philistines have never been the least bit deterred, lapping up whatever schlock is served up. Doo-doo.

spin. Doo-doo.

EricK · 09-03-2005, 11:31 AM

He had to take some number of stones. Obviously taking just one would risk his missing Goliath (or just wounding him) and leaving himself defenseless. But taking too many and he would be too weighed down . Five seems a reasonable compromise.

Why did he take smooth stones though? Sharp stones would seem a better choice.

Eric

spin · 09-03-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricK

Why did he take smooth stones though? Sharp stones would seem a better choice.

Smooth stones have less air resistence when moving through the air and can therefore travel further faster.

spin

Johnny Skeptic · 09-03-2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricK

He had to take some number of stones. Obviously taking just one would risk his missing Goliath (or just wounding him) and leaving himself defenseless.

Not at all. God doesn't miss.

Toto · 09-03-2005, 12:53 PM

One "Biblical Numerology" site says that the 5 stones represent the 5 senses.

Quote:

The five stones represent the spiritualization of David’s senses. David believed in the indwelling God of love and had learned to depend upon the spiritual power within himself. According to a mystical legend, when David touched the five stones they became Old as one stone, thus combining the total powers of his senses. The name Testament Goliath means material power; thus the story is meant to demonstrate the power of the spiritual over the material.

Another says:

Quote:

Why were there four other stones in David's possession? In 2 Samuel 21:22, the Word says that David and his men slew four other giants as well. Total: five. Weapons: five stones.

Or you might prefer this

Quote:

.5 The Quincunx, the number 5, or the Pentad was regarded by the followers of Pythagoras, as well as by Jewish and Arabic philosophers, as the symbol of health. The Egyptians saw in it a mark of prosperity, but on the whole the Pentad seems universally to have symbolized marriage, fecundity and propagation. This belief probably had its origin in the idea of 5 being the union of 3 and 2, or a male and female number. In ancient Rome, its signifi-cance was emphasized by the burning of five tapers during the marriage ceremony. Many heathen religions included prayers asking help from five gods to instil five virtues into the hearts of prospective wives.

Mohammedanism preaches five religious duties-prayer, fasting, purification, alms and pilgrimage to Mecca. Our own Scriptures contain many indications that the number 5 seems to have been regarded with a particular significance. Benjamin was given five changes of raiment by Joseph; the latter brought five only of his brothers to Pharaoh; and David chose five smooth stones with which to slay the giant Goliath. Moreover, man possesses five senses-sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste; also five digits on each of his hands and feet.

The Pentad is represented geometrically by a regular, five-sided plane figure or else by a pyramid. It also takes the shape of a five-pointed star, which is one form of the ancient Seal of Solomon "

Tubby Lardmore · 09-03-2005, 12:59 PM

I used to laugh at a local radio preacher's use of "Biblical Numerology." He invited listeners to call him at the studio and talk live on the air. "Eight--oh hallelujah, sister! That is the number of new beginning, praise the Lord." Then there was his use of his gift of hearing God's voice, as in: "The Lord told me that you need to read Psalms chapter 87, and then send an eighty-seven dollar donation to this ministry."

Toto · 09-03-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubby Lardmore

. . . Then there was his use of his gift of hearing God's voice, as in: "The Lord told me that you need to read Psalms chapter 87, and then send an eighty-seven dollar donation to this ministry."

:notworthy

If David had picked any other number, there would have been an equally valid numerical explanation.

Why not just one stone? Because we know that the Lord helps those who help themselves. Oops, that's nowhere in the Bible.

yummyfur · 09-07-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

1 Samuel 17:40 says "And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine." If four stones wouldn't have been enough to kill Goliath, why would David have assumed that a fifth stone would have killed Goliath? In addition, why did he assume that one stone wouldn't have killed Goliath? Further, the Philistines were not in the least bit deterred from continuing to oppose the Jews by tooth and claw for decades to come.

Amusingly, in his book titled 'The Signature of God,' Canadian pastor and author Grant Jeffrey said that when he was a teen-ager, God told him that David took fives stones to fight Goliath because Goliath had four brothers.

Well maybe there were only five good smooth stones that would make good sling ammunition in that particular brook

the other explanation would be the authors intent at an allegorical association, but trying to figure out what that is would probably be impossible, as there could be so many possibilities, irregardless of what number the author had chosen. The one that comes off the top of my head would be that this is the number of the Philistine Kings, earlier in 1 Samuel, the Philistines had to pay with five golden tumors and five golden mice for taking the ark of the covenant, these fines were according to the number of their Kings which was five. But there are probably hundreds of just as good allegorical explanations.

braces_for_impact · 09-07-2005, 06:42 PM

If only the gargatuan Philistine had remembered to wear his helmet, David would have been beef jerky.

09-03-2005, 09:46 AM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Why did David take five stones to fight Goliath? 1 Samuel 17:40 says "And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine." If four stones wouldn't have been enough to kill Goliath, why would David have assumed that a fifth stone would have killed Goliath? In addition, why did he assume that one stone wouldn't have killed Goliath? Further, the Philistines were not in the least bit deterred from continuing to oppose the Jews by tooth and claw for decades to come. Amusingly, in his book titled 'The Signature of God,' Canadian pastor and author Grant Jeffrey said that when he was a teen-ager, God told him that David took fives stones to fight Goliath because Goliath had four brothers.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

09-03-2005, 11:10 AM	#2
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	This passage is deeply allegorical, referring to the five stones which had sympathy for the devil. Doo-doo. Goliath, of course, were the record companies which wanted to take control of music back from the dregs of hippy riff-raffdom. Doo-doo. The Philistines are the listening public who buy Britney and Christina, Ricky Martin, boy bands, hip-hop and Eminem in no preferred order. Doo-doo. The Philistines have never been the least bit deterred, lapping up whatever schlock is served up. Doo-doo. spin. Doo-doo.

09-03-2005, 11:31 AM	#3
EricK Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 7,601	He had to take some number of stones. Obviously taking just one would risk his missing Goliath (or just wounding him) and leaving himself defenseless. But taking too many and he would be too weighed down . Five seems a reasonable compromise. Why did he take smooth stones though? Sharp stones would seem a better choice. Eric

09-03-2005, 12:59 PM	#7
Tubby Lardmore Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,470	I used to laugh at a local radio preacher's use of "Biblical Numerology." He invited listeners to call him at the studio and talk live on the air. "Eight--oh hallelujah, sister! That is the number of new beginning, praise the Lord." Then there was his use of his gift of hearing God's voice, as in: "The Lord told me that you need to read Psalms chapter 87, and then send an eighty-seven dollar donation to this ministry."

09-07-2005, 06:42 PM	#10
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	If only the gargatuan Philistine had remembered to wear his helmet, David would have been beef jerky.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.