Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-03-2005, 12:40 AM

If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female:

"The Biblical Hebrew word for spirit is ruwach, meaning wind, breath, inspiration; the noun is grammatically feminine. In the "Odes of Solomon'; the oldest surviving Christian hymnal, the Holy Spirit is grammatically female. The Greek word for spirit, 'pneuma', has no grammatical gender. The Holy Spirit is translated in masculine terms only in languages such as Latin and English."
http://openproxy.ath.cx/ho/Holy_Spirit.html

Clivedurdle · 12-03-2005, 03:17 AM

I just posted the quoted part below on GRD.

My copy of Freke and Gandy, p151 discusses the xian myth cycle and the role of Sophia. They discuss Ptolemy and Pleroma and Kenoma. "Heracleon and Ptolemy tell us that the dove symbolises Sophia".."the Holy Spirit is a psuedonym of the Goddess". (Dove at Jesus Baptism).

Isn't the proposition that the Holy Spirit is female classic gnostic thought that supports a mythical Jesus, a heavenly resurrection and a mystery religion?

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker
No, you have misunderstood. It is the gender of God, not us, that is an 'illusion' given the He is neither strictly male nor female. In men and women, the male and female aspects are split into two sexes.

Like certain Christian theologians, I believe that God the Father is male but the Holy Spirit is female.

(My response):

Holy Spirit as Sophia?

Oh and Holy Spirit as Female sounds very like Freke and Gandy Jesus and the Goddess.....

Why Were the Teachings of the Original Christians Brutally Suppressed by the Roman Church?

? Because they portray Jesus and Mary Magdalene as mythic figures based on the Pagan Godman and Goddess
? Because they show that the gospel story is a spiritual allegory encapsulating a profound philosophy that leads to mythical enlightenment
? Because they have the power to turn the world inside out and transform life into an exploration of consciousness

Drawing on modern scholarship, the authors of the international bestseller The Jesus Mysteries decode the secret teachings of the original Christians for the first time in almost two millennia and theorize about who the original Christians really were and what they actually taught. In addition, the book explores the many myths of Jesus and the Goddess and unlocks the lost secret teachings of Christian mysticism, which promise happiness and immortality to those who attain the state of Gnosis, or enlightenment. This daring and controversial book recovers the ancient wisdom of the original Christians and demonstrates its relevance to us today.

Oh, and in the nineteenth century the Roman Catholic Church made the Trinity into a Quaternity by upgrading Mary to Mother of God. Jung was very interesting about this

Steven Carr · 12-03-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female:

"The Biblical Hebrew word for spirit is ruwach, meaning wind, breath, inspiration; the noun is grammatically feminine. In the "Odes of Solomon'; the oldest surviving Christian hymnal, the Holy Spirit is grammatically female. The Greek word for spirit, 'pneuma', has no grammatical gender. The Holy Spirit is translated in masculine terms only in languages such as Latin and English."
http://openproxy.ath.cx/ho/Holy_Spirit.html

Das Madschen ist schoen.

Der Teenager ist schwanger.

Un bocadillo de queso, por favor.

Grammar has little to do with reality.

judge · 12-03-2005, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female:

Hi Orthodox_Freethinker, the same applies in the Aramaic peshitta where the holy spirit is in the feminine.

But the really interesting thing in in the very first verse of John's gospel
Where we have two masculine verbs linked to a feminine noun. Thus the word is both male and female!

Flm 0wh Yhwty0 ty4rb
BRESHIT AYTOHI HWA MILTHA
In the Beginning was the Miltha.

pharoah · 12-03-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female:

If that's true, then the Virgin Birth story is downright kinky, isn't it?

Chris Weimer · 12-03-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female

Flawed: He made Adam in his image, which was both male and female, until he removed the female part from Adam to create Eve. Then again, that's one of the Creation stories. The other one, I believe, follows what you first said.

Quote:

The Greek word for spirit, 'pneuma', has no grammatical gender.

This is simpy wrong. The greek word for spirit, "pneuma" (πνευμα) has a neuter grammatical gender. The word "gender" itself comes from the Latin "gens, gentis" meaning "class" and referred to the type of noun it was, and not "sex". Sex association with gender only came about as a clarifying need for sex, which the earliest form of IE did not have.

Moreover, if the Holy Spirit is feminine, then how did it impregnate Mary?

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-03-2005, 05:38 PM

God is beyond gender. When I speak of male or female attributes of God, I do not mean sexual but emotional, psychological and spiritual. The way I see it, the Trinity is like a continuum.
The Father is more masculine than feminine, the Holy Spirit is more feminine than masculine and the Son is more or less an androgynous being.

Chris Weimer · 12-03-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

God is beyond gender. When I speak of male or female attributes of God, I do not mean sexual but emotional, psychological and spiritual. The way I see it, the Trinity is like a continuum.
The Father is more masculine than feminine, the Holy Spirit is more feminine than masculine and the Son is more or less an androgynous being.

That doesn't make sense at all. The emotional differences between male and female are intimately linked to sex. Not merely genitals, but chemicals mostly. But sincerely, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-03-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

That doesn't make sense at all. The emotional differences between male and female are intimately linked to sex. Not merely genitals, but chemicals mostly. But sincerely, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Here is something:

In the Old Testament, Jehovah is presented as a God of war. That is a rather masculine attribute. The Holy Spirit, however, is the Comforter, which is more like a motherly being.

Chris Weimer · 12-03-2005, 08:34 PM

But God (aka Jehovah) is also talked about as God the Father, a merciful and forgiving being, much like a mother. Moreover, the Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Old Testament, but only Jehovah, right? So any references to God must be to Jehovah. So what of David's sigh "Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me"?

12-03-2005, 12:40 AM	#1
Orthodox_Freethinker Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,812	The Holy Spirit: The Female Person of the Holy Trinity If God created both male and female in His own image then God is both male and female in His qualities. The Father is a male, the Son is a male, therefore it logically follows that the Holy Spirit should be female: "The Biblical Hebrew word for spirit is ruwach, meaning wind, breath, inspiration; the noun is grammatically feminine. In the "Odes of Solomon'; the oldest surviving Christian hymnal, the Holy Spirit is grammatically female. The Greek word for spirit, 'pneuma', has no grammatical gender. The Holy Spirit is translated in masculine terms only in languages such as Latin and English." http://openproxy.ath.cx/ho/Holy_Spirit.html

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12-03-2005, 05:38 PM	#7
Orthodox_Freethinker Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,812	God is beyond gender. When I speak of male or female attributes of God, I do not mean sexual but emotional, psychological and spiritual. The way I see it, the Trinity is like a continuum. The Father is more masculine than feminine, the Holy Spirit is more feminine than masculine and the Son is more or less an androgynous being.

12-03-2005, 08:34 PM	#10
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	But God (aka Jehovah) is also talked about as God the Father, a merciful and forgiving being, much like a mother. Moreover, the Holy Spirit is never mentioned in the Old Testament, but only Jehovah, right? So any references to God must be to Jehovah. So what of David's sigh "Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me"?

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