Steven Carr

2 Corinthians 11:5 But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.

The Gospels and Acts claim that the apostles were peasant fishermen, poor, unedcuated.

Why then does Paul refer to the Ueber-apostles as trained speakers and imply that he is less educated than them?

Or is Acts depiction of a church led by uneducated men misleading?

aa5874

The persons who wrote the NT were cunning, without doubt. Their deception has already lasted a couple of millenia. Saul/Paul appears to be a fictitious figure, his conversion defies the doctrine of 'free will' and is an extra-ordinary event, which has not been corroborated .

windsofchange

It's also possible that Paul wasn't talking about the men we traditionally think of as "the" apostles. Examples:

- Romans 16:7

And he repeatedly refers to himself as an apostle. So obviously he did not consider the word "apostle" limited only to the original 12, and could have been talking about people - men OR women - who were indeed better educated and more eloquent than they were.

Steven Carr

Is the impression you get from Acts of a church where there were many of these well-educated people, preaching a different Jesus to Paul, preaching a different Gospel to his, peddling the word of God for profit (2 Cor. 2)?

The impression given by Paul is of a deeply divided church.

And why does Paul in 2 Corinthians not say a good word about the real apostles, the people who knew Jesus? Surely a comparison of one to the other would impress on the Corinthians the importance of not listening to the false apostles.

windsofchange

Um, I am just saying that perhaps Paul was not referring to the "uneducated fisherman" but to others whom he classified as "apostles". Because in your OP you stated that Paul described the "super apostles" as being learned and trained speakers, which didn't sound like the Big 12. I'm actually agreeing with you, I think.

andrewcriddle

I agree.

2 Corinthians 11:4 and particulrly 11:6 'Even If I am unskilled in teaching I am not in knowledge', indicate that the super-apostles are people actually arriving in Corinth and preaching there in ways that Paul finds unhelpful. Probably people with rhetorical skills greater than Paul's.

Apostles currently resident in Jerusalem or Galilee would not have qualified.

Andrew Criddle

Steven Carr

Didn't anybody in Jerusalem or Galilee make trips to spread the word?

Why doesn't Paul tell the Corinthians to remember what Peter or James or John said?

judge

Obviously Paul is writing about people other than "the apostles of christ", as we know of them today.

Steven Carr

That is obviously true, as he is referring to real people who were influential in real churches, which is why the people he calls apostles bear little relation to the apostles of the Gospels and Acts.

judge

Well pardon me.
If you say it is obviously true then it must be obviously true.
Apologies for daring to think otherwise.