Clivedurdle

Is this referring to the publication and distribution of the Septaguint?

When did it become widely available in the Greek world? Might this help with Aretas?

show_no_mercy

The LXX was translated according to tradition for Ptolemy Philadelphus (c. 280 BCE). Aretas III reigned during the late Hasmonean era (c. 60 BCE).

bacht

I like this passage because it suggests that the revelation of Christ came through scripture, not eyewitness encounters with Jesus ie. he was always "there" to be found, and only in Paul's day were people "seeing" him in the writings.

Toto

I think that this refers to the revelation by the Spirit of the real meaning hidden in the Scriptures.

Clivedurdle

But that could not have happened without the scriptures being there to be revealed! So how common was the Septaguint in 60 BCE? Doesn't this give us a possible much earlier date for Paul?

Was there much discussion of Lord Joshua saviour messiahs BCE?

Clivedurdle

Wiki

And interestingly, Paul going on about circumcision makes more sense earlier, as an outlier of the Jewish civil war leading to the defeat of Greek Judaism that saw circumcision and the kosher rules as barbaric.

Paul reads as a heavily Greek influenced Jew who seems to fit far better earlier concerns.

Is the problem Acts with its heavy Roman tales? Do the Epistles assume a world before the crossing of the Rubicon?

show_no_mercy

The entire Jesus story plays out during the late Hasmonean era in the "Toledot Jesu"

DCHindley

Bacht,

Take a look at how that passage is organized:

Romans 16:25-27 (a word-for-word "crib" translation from a W&H based interlinear)

25 To-the-(one) but being-powerful you to-make-firmly-fixed

according-to the good-news of-me

and the preaching of-Jesus Christ,

according-to revelation of-mystery
to-times everlasting of-(one)-having-been-kept silenced
26 of-(one)-having-been-manifested but now
through and scriptures prophetic
according-to enjoinder of-the everlasting God
into obedience of-faith into all the nations
of-(one)-having-been-made-known,

27 to-alone wise God

through Jesus Christ

to-whom the glory into the ages; amen.

This is basically a benediction, in which God is praised: "But to the one who is powerful to make you firmly fixed … to <the> alone wise God … belongs the everlasting glory. Amen!"

Tucked in one level of discourse from this basic benediction is a little advertisement for Paul's brand of "good news": "[Firmly fixed, that is,] according to my good news, … which came by a revelation of a mystery, one which had been kept silent for ages, but now having been manifested, even through prophetic scriptures, according to the enjoinder of the everlasting God, which has been made known to bring the obedience of faith to all the nations."

This leaves only 2 phrases that serve no purpose but to hijack Paul's good news: "and the preaching of Jesus Christ,," (which implies that Paul's good news is not enough, it needs some Christ action as well) and "through Jesus Christ" (which claims that the glory can't belong to the alone wise God except "through Jesus Christ"!)

Yikes!

DCH

bacht

I don't know the original grammatical structure, but in English it looks like the phrase "the preaching of Jesus Christ" simply means preaching about JC, rather than preaching from or by JC

The other phrase seems to be part of a long blessing with an inserted clause, starting at v 25:

Now to him who is able to strengthen you ...
...to the only wise God be glory for evermore [through Jesus Christ!] Amen.

I'm no expert on Paul but this seems normal for him, expressing worship towards God (YHWH) and gratitude for His new mode of salvation in/through Christ (?)

DCHindley

bacht,

I think it will be difficult to find any genuine benedictions from Jews (maybe in Philo, Josephus, or some other preserved literature of that time) where praise would be directed to God "through" (or even "by means of") another party. I could take a look later today.

DCH