sabalseed

Other than the"thou shalt not kill"commandment,is anything possibly concerning abortion even mentioned?I cant recall any,and since the commandment apparantly excludes war could it also exclude abortion.If so there will sure be a lots of embarrassed fundies.

Chicken Girl

There's a verse in the old testament (I'm sure somebody will come along who knows where it is) that calls for adulterous women to be given a potion which will cause her "thigh" to rot -- thigh being a euphemism for uterus -- i.e., the potion supposedly induces a miscarriage.

Then there's all the verses in the old testament where yahweh orders the hebrews to rip open all the pregnant women of a tribe they have just conquered and dash all the babies against the rocks...

Autumnman

The "abortion" problem arises with Pauline Christianity. This mythology not only claims that all are sinners, but also states that "all sinners", even the unborn, must be born so they can be reborn in Jesus Christ. This mythology is both flawed and extremely powerful. It is so powerful that it is undermining the U.S. Constitution as we speak. According to the U.S. Constitution Article 6, clause 3, abortion, stem cells, and gay marriage should not even be topics of political debate.
We have a big problem, eh?

FatherMithras

I disagree about abortion. It's not the religious agenda only pushing against it. Many people, including myself see a conceived growing fetus in the womb as a person and thus don't support abortion, believing it's a violation of their rights.

Reena

Agreed, unborn babies aren't that different from newborns (especially at later stages of development). I don't support abortion except in cases where the pregnancy must be terminated to save the mother's life.

Mabus_Zero

Yes, but with the research that can be gleamed from a stockpile of harvested unborns, thousands of lives could be saved annually from diseases plaguing us currently, and diseases yet to come. One must ask a question concerning that:

Is a momentary sacrifice of others suitable for the saving of others yet to come?

Really, the concept has to do with the compromising of ones own morality, for the sake of the possibilities in the longterm.

((If this belongs in another section, please tell me.))

Toto

Previous threads on Abortion in the Bible: Is the Bible actually Pro-choice?
Is God Pro-choice?

Num 5:12-31 and abortion

The verse that appears to advocate abortion is Num. 5:21

The idea that life begins at conception only developed in the nineteenth century, as a collusion between the Pope and the Emperor Napoleon, who needed more canon fodder to be born.

The idea that a fetus is a separate person with a right to life that trumps the willingness of the women to carry it to term, is also a very modern one, with no basis in American jurisprudence. It appears to me that the idea was invented by religious fanatics opposed to abortion who needed to dress up their anti-abortion stance in secular garb. It really makes no sense to say that a 3 month old fetus or younger has legal rights. But this is not the forum to discuss that issue.

Mabus_Zero

Thanks for the clarification.

Chicken Girl

I assume you mean morally different, because an early first trimester embryo and a full-term baby are VERY different.

drewjmore

I am personally averse to abortion, however, this is an area where the law should not be allowed to intrude. The incidence of abortion is a symptom of larger societal problems, which need to be addressed in their own right. Legal sanction against the (however distasteful) decision to end a pregnancy has been historically shown to cause additional problems, particularly unwanted/unloved children.

That said. A search on, 'pregnant' in the OT leaves the area gray in my mind. Amos 1:13-15 : "...they committed cruel crimes, ripping open pregnant women with their swords."
So it's a crime.
Hosea 13
"...The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."
Or a punishment layed out by god for idolaters.

2 Kings 15:16-18 "...killed the entire population and ripped open the pregnant women...Menahem did what was evil in the LORD's sight." Not entirely contextual, but the point is this king was evil, and committer of infanticide.

The interesting one to me is this:

Exodus 21:22-25 Is a legal decision which makes an unborn child (and its mother, but this goes without saying...) essentially the 'property' of the father. I assumes that if, "...they hurt a pregnant woman so her child is born prematurely," that child is expected to die, medical science being what it was. So, "if no further harm results," to anyone but that premature child, "then the person responsible must pay damages in the amount the woman's husband demands and the judges approve." Ergo, abortion is not murder.