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Old 02-24-2009, 11:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson
...what it is ...that those in the pew believe they are praying for when they recite the words of the Lord's Prayer.
A serious assessment ought, in my opinion, commence by examining the GREEK text, i.e. the original text, in which this passage was composed, 18 or 19 hundred years ago....
The question is about what it means to modern Christians, not about original, authorial intent. Most people who recite the LP in English (or in any modern language) do not even know the original Greek, much less factor it into their perceptions of the prayer.
Quote:
The Greek/English dictionary gave me the following result when I entered ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon
"no matching words"
So, regarding the word "hallowed", it is not simply a question of:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto
This word is so far from modern English that I think it glides by without leaving much of an impression.
Here's another dictionary, same lack of translation:
http://www.babylon.com/define/105/Greek-Dictionary.html
same problem:
http://www.lingvosoft.com/English-Greek-Dictionary/
Apparently, "ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ" is non trivial to define.
I looked in my copy of Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, but, alas, ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ is not listed there either.
Here's hoping you can point to an online dictionary where we can elaborate the English derivation of hagiastheto.
avi
Try looking for ΑΓΙΑΣΩ. Lexicons do not have entries for every inflected form of every verb.

By the way, the meaning is basically to consecrate, to sanctify, to purify something or set it aside for a sacrifice. In Greek, then, "ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ ΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑ ΣΟΥ" would have a connotation of holding the name as separate from the profane -- as being purified and holy -- perhaps even with an implication that the name is supposed to be reserved for liturgical use only (ala the Tetragrammaton), but most modern Christians don't think of it in ancient, ritualistic terms. From what I know (having been brought up Catholic), a large percentage of Christians just rattle off the prayer like the Pledge of Allegiance without putting much, if any, contemplation into the literal meaning of the words, but to the extent they give it anything thought at all, I think "Hallowed be thy name" is just a generic "God is great" salutation.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:42 AM   #12
avi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
Try looking for ΑΓΙΑΣΩ
Thanks. Excellent.
Oops. Didn't know that ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ was an inflected verb. Didn't know that ΑΓΙΑΣΩ was the stem of the verb. Didn't realize that contemporary dictionaries of Greek are so different from their English counterparts.
If one searches, at dictionary.com, the verb baptise, or the noun baptism, one finds the definition. If instead, one enters baptised, the inflected form of baptise, which is now an adjective, one finds the definition.

ΑΓΙΑΣΩ definition, as Diogenes explained, is
Quote:
basically to consecrate, to sanctify, to purify something or set it aside for a sacrifice.
or, as I learned after entering ΑΓΙΑΣΩ into one of the web sites above:
Quote:
become holy, hallow, consecrate, sanctify
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes
The question is about what it means to modern Christians, not about original, authorial intent.
Yes, you are surely correct, but, my notion, perhaps incorrect, is to attempt to understand what the original authors intended, as opposed to trying to imagine what contemporary Mormons, Catholics, and modern day Arians believe.
The question then arises, if the name is "holy", or "hallowed", then, are ordinary folks forbidden to say it, to speak it, to whisper it, to recite it? If it is "holy", doesn't that imply that ONLY the priestly class of individuals should be permitted to utter the word, "GOD", or in this case, Christianity, perhaps, "Jesus, the Christ"? Are there not some religious sects, among the Christians, who do assert blasphemy upon speaking the word, "God", based on the original meaning of this very word, ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ ?

Is it possible that the "synonym" LORD arose to avoid the allegation of blasphemy?
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