FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-07-2007, 05:34 PM   #1
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: united states
Posts: 156
Default guards at tomb question

How do Christians explain why the Jewish leaders would put guards at the tomb? Wouldn't they have wanted to leave the tomb unguarded so if the body disappeared , they could just say that his followers took the body?

Also, I don't think they believed that an empty tomb was proof of a resurrection, but only seeing the dead person alive again would be proof of a resurrection, so there was no reason to try to keep his followers from taking the body. It would have been more logical for the Jewish leaders to want his tomb unguarded, so his body could be taken easily by his followers. There was no logical reason for them to want to prevent his body from being taken away, so the story about guards at the tomb makes no sense to me.
manwithdream is offline  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:40 PM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

It makes sense as a plot line in the Christian story, so they can claim that there is no way the disciples could have stolen the body.
Toto is offline  
Old 10-07-2007, 06:07 PM   #3
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithdream View Post
Quote:
How do Christians explain why the Jewish leaders would put guards at the tomb? Wouldn't they have wanted to leave the tomb unguarded so if the body disappeared , they could just say that his followers took the body?

Also, I don't think they believed that an empty tomb was proof of a resurrection, but only seeing the dead person alive again would be proof of a resurrection, so there was no reason to try to keep his followers from taking the body.
I think they knew what was intended to happen, but in desperation and panic attempted to prevent it. It could be said that in so doing they did exactly as God wanted, which they were doing anyway in many other ways.
Clouseau is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:29 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Bernardino, Calif.
Posts: 5,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
I think they knew what was intended to happen, but in desperation and panic attempted to prevent it.
Two questions.
1. Exactly what did they think was intended to happen?
2. Exactly who did they think intended it to happen?
Doug Shaver is offline  
Old 10-08-2007, 08:14 AM   #5
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On a hill.
Posts: 288
Default

What I love about the 'guards at the tomb' story is how it highlights the complete silliness of the oblivious disciples theme:

Apparently, Pilate knew Jesus claimed he would be resurrected, the Sanhedrin knew it, everyone knew it...

...except the disciples, who had been told this repeatedly for a week, but who wandered off in total despair when he died. They were the only ones who didn't remember that Jesus had claimed he would resurrect.

Or so the story goes.

Gotta laugh.
Wedge is offline  
Old 10-10-2007, 10:52 PM   #6
Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: the fringe of the caribbean
Posts: 18,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge View Post
What I love about the 'guards at the tomb' story is how it highlights the complete silliness of the oblivious disciples theme:

Apparently, Pilate knew Jesus claimed he would be resurrected, the Sanhedrin knew it, everyone knew it...

...except the disciples, who had been told this repeatedly for a week, but who wandered off in total despair when he died. They were the only ones who didn't remember that Jesus had claimed he would resurrect.

Or so the story goes.

Gotta laugh.
The disiples, it seems, just did not believe in Jesus when it comes to the resurrection. It would appear that there is no scriptural support or prophecy in the OT for the resurrection, so the disciples maybe dismissed this event as wishful thinking.

John 20.19, "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise from the dead.

The prophet called Daniel may have forgotten to include the resurrection of the Messiah in his so-called prohecies.

And by the way, it is a useless exercise to steal a dead body, if the body will come back to life and this same person will be seen eating fish and bread and giving fishing instructions.

And perhaps the guards were at the tomb not to guard the body, primarily, but to make sure to kill it everytime it tried to rise.
aa5874 is offline  
Old 10-11-2007, 06:37 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le
Posts: 8,446
Default

You are assuming that they (the priests and pontius) believed it would rise from the dead. If they believed that they wouldn't have crucified him to begin with.
Sarpedon is offline  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:48 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Western Sweden
Posts: 3,684
Default

The easy answer to the OP problem is of course that most all of the Bible is fantasy. No God, no J. Josephson, no crucifiction, no tomb etc.
Lugubert is offline  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:50 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,691
Default

People venerate the corpses of their leaders all the time. I'm guessing that Jesus wasn't given a proper funeral from a Jewish perspective (why would the Romans grant that to a rabble rouser), so it makes good sense to post guards to prevent his followers from stealing his body and giving him a proper burial.
xunzian is offline  
Old 10-11-2007, 10:35 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central - New York
Posts: 4,108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithdream View Post
How do Christians explain why the Jewish leaders would put guards at the tomb? Wouldn't they have wanted to leave the tomb unguarded so if the body disappeared , they could just say that his followers took the body?

Also, I don't think they believed that an empty tomb was proof of a resurrection, but only seeing the dead person alive again would be proof of a resurrection, so there was no reason to try to keep his followers from taking the body. It would have been more logical for the Jewish leaders to want his tomb unguarded, so his body could be taken easily by his followers. There was no logical reason for them to want to prevent his body from being taken away, so the story about guards at the tomb makes no sense to me.
Hello Man :wave:

I actually have several questions and no answers.

1 - Who said there were guards at the Tomb?
Was it perhaps Mark (often thought to be the earliest Gospel)?
Was it written in Luke (who says he wrote his account after much reasearch and also credited with writting Acts)?
Was it John (the latest and often called the most developed Gospel)?
Perhaps the detail of the guards appears in the writtings of Paul?

2 - Where ther guards set by the Romans?

3 - Were the guards set by the Jewish leaders?

Just something to think about before looking for the "logic" behind the actions of (as someone suggested) characters in a story.
JEST2ASK is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:54 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.