bornagainskeptic

We are all very familiar with the tale from Matthew 1:18 that Mary 'was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit'. The Luke version (1:26-41) has the 'angel Gabriel' :angel: announcing to Mary that she will become pregnant by the 'Holy Spirit', and soon after she magically gets pregnant (how convenient - no premarital sex with Joseph or encounters with Roman soldiers here!) So, just how did the 'Holy Spirit' get Mary pregnant? This is not specifically explained by the gospel stories, but it seems that the Holy Spirit had sex with the 'virgin' Mary while she slept one night. In this episode, the Holy Spirit sounds very much like my dictionary's definition of an incubus: 'an imaginary demon or evil spirit supposed to descend upon sleeping persons, especially one reputed to have sexual intercourse with sleeping women'. There is also no indication that Mary consented to this act of sexual intercourse, thus making the Holy Spirit :devil1: a rapist as well.
What's the point of this threat? Not sure. :huh: Maybe it's another example of all those 'good, loving' Christian gods actually being evil in practice. Any ideas?

John A. Broussard

The "Holy Ghost" concept is buried in obscurity. My guess is that, in the passage you cite, the "Holy Spirit" is merely a way to refer to a believed divine attribute, just as we speak of someone "with spirit." It makes sense, then, that god would have a "holy" spirit.

I welcome comments on my guesswork.

froggy

I believe there is a mixed up with the word "Holy spirit" and "Spirit". Maybe next time I copy and paste an example for this.
In the Qur'an Gabriel is Holy spirit but it states differently in the NT. The best thing is by giving an example than we can discuss it.
Anyway the red colour highlight is unnecessary in my opinion as it does hurt the feeling of some people, I am sure you don't want to hurt anyone feeling.

Toto

The incubi and succubi were outgrowths of much later Christian sexual repression. The holy spirit coming on Mary was probably analogous to Zeus impregnating mortals. But why would actual sex be required for a supernatural being? And wouldn't that go against the idea that Mary was a virgin?

John A. Broussard

You ignore the fact of miracles. Since god can do anything, he could most certainly impregnate Mary without disturbing her virginity. Or perhaps he simply restored it afterwards, the way modern plastic surgeons do.

I hope my comments don't lead to a degeneration of this thread into a discussion of what really, really is virginity.

offa

Mary's cousin Elisabeth was a Samaritan, therefore, Mary was a Samaritan. Virgins in the bible are Samaritans. For instance, Sarai already had a Child before her miraculous giving birth in her eighties, read "Jubilies". The deduction is that all Samaritan women are perpetual Virgins. Elisabeth went into hiding after five months in order to prevail as a Virgin. If the congregation does not see her as pregnant then she remains Virgin. Her husband loses his voice because of her pregnancy. Zach is not allowed to administer as priest because "he dreamed he had intercourse with his wife". If he is not allowed to preach then he loses his voice until John is born. Read "Josephus" about the time of Herod's death and you will find a story about a priest who "dreamed" about having sex and was not allowed to preach for "1 Day" and those with occult knowledge realise that a Jubilee Day is "1 year". Mary did not have sex with a "man" because the Samaritan hierarchy does not contain men, Samaritan adult males are called angels and spirits. Mary had sex with a spirit. Her daddy was the angel Gabriel.

offa

John A. Broussard

I believe you mean Anne, here, Mary's mother. This is the reason why Mary was immaculately conceived.

Magus55

Mary wasn't immacuately conceived.

Chili

Mary was immaculately conceived or her name would be Magdalene. Mary's seed was from the Lord (instead of Anne), and that had found favor with God who send the angel Gabriel to Announce conception = the "word become flesh" = the Word precedes existence. The seed being from the Lord is the connection to the throne of David in the line of Jacob.

So now you may ask, 'who is Mary? She was the Immaculate Conception who was betrothed to Joseph. Two things make her that: Immaculate in the eyes of the Lord and Conceived by God -- and this can be anybody as Perpetual Virgin but here she was engaged to Joseph.

To deny the Immaculate conception is to deny God's handiwork in this and that makes your father the devil also (Jn.8:39-).

froggy

I promised for the mixed up of the holy spirit, it is here from John gospel.

14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

In 14:26 The comforter and the holy spirit is one of the same, but in 16:7 Jesus said he was not there yet.
Just looking from this the word holy spirit is ambigous word as far as NT is concern.