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Old 10-25-2007, 10:46 AM   #31
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But how does he get that figure? In any case, 'probably' is as good as useless, in view of the character of the person under discussion.
I don't know exactly, but it would accord with the ancient world in general. Most people everywhere were illiterate. Formal education was rare and books even more so. Clinging to the word "probably" is kind of lame. I would characterize the chance of 1st Century, Jewish, Galilean artisan being literate as so close to nil that it can be functionally dismissed out of hand.
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Who made and repaired doors and roofs, made furniture, carts and ploughs, as well as building houses?
Who worked as laborers on crews who did those things. They were bricklayers and stone masons and carpenters who did piece work for food. They lived in abject poverty and (again, according to Crossan) were worse off even than peasant farmers.
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Yes. Unless you were Greek, anyway.
Evidence?[/QUOTE]
Archaeology as well as written records. Apart from the wealthy Greek cities of the Decapolis, Galilee consisted of sharecropping farmers (basically serfs who farmed for wealthy landowners), fishermen and (below them on the social scale) the tektons who fixed their walls and roofs. The only thing below artisans were the absolute destitutes, outcasts and lepers.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:53 AM   #32
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One study puts literacy in Israel at the time of Christ at 3%.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:30 AM   #33
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If he was of the artisan class (i.e. a tekton or "builder" which is the source of the "carpenter" tradition) then he belonged to a subsistence class which actually ranked below that of peasants in 1st Century Palestine. They were basically day workers doing piece work on walls and houses for farmers.
I've also heard it argued that Jesus could have been a stone mason who spent most of his days working in the town of Sepphoris, about 5 km from Nazareth. When Herod Antipas took over the somewhat rural area of Galillee after his fathers death, he established Sepphoris as his showpiece city and spent much money and effort building it up.

It seems plausible that a family like Jesus' would have spent most of their non-sabbath time in Sepphoris - where the jobs were, and plausible that Jesus did not spend much time writing stuff down. Even if he was ABLE to write, I would imagine that he would not be very good at it. He grew up surrounded by the oral tradition.

Contrast that with Paul's childhood. A privaleged jew, a Roman citizen, and who spent his childhood studying under a famous rabbi. Is it any wonder he wrote so much, and wrote so eloquently?
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:01 PM   #34
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In any case, 'probably' is as good as useless, in view of the character of the person under discussion.
How does an individual's "character" inform us about the individual's literacy?
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:42 PM   #35
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But how does he get that figure? In any case, 'probably' is as good as useless, in view of the character of the person under discussion.
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I don't know exactly, but it would accord with the ancient world in general.
'At the time of Christ literacy was widespread. With its educational institutions designed to prepare persons for citizenship, Hellenism significantly increased interest in the ability to read.' ISBE Revised

But Jews have never been like people in general, anyway. They were and remain 'people of the Book'; there were synagogues in most towns where there were Jews (estimated at several thousands worldwide), and reading from the Tanakh was universal practice therein. We read in Acts 17 of the Jews of Berea checking out Paul's teaching with the Scripture. So at least some in each district were literate, and it is quite possible that Jewish children were taught to read the Tanakh in one language or another. Even if not, Jesus would of course have been as interested as any, and in view of his interest and intelligence, the chance of him being illiterate was negligible, imv.
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:03 PM   #36
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'At the time of Christ literacy was widespread.
Not in Palestine.
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But Jews have never been like people in general, anyway. They were and remain 'people of the Book'; there were synagogues in most towns where there were Jews (estimated at several thousands worldwide)
Israeli archaeology does not support this claim.
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and reading from the Tanakh was universal practice therein.
Only by trained rabbis, not by the laity.


By the way, the study linked above cited Rabbinic sources for a 97% illiteracy rate in 1st Century Palestine.
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We read in Acts 17 of the Jews of Berea checking out Paul's teaching with the Scripture. So at least some in each district were literate
Not that Acts is proof of anything but Hellenistic Jews were not the same as
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Even if not, Jesus would of course have been as interested as any, and in view of his interest and intelligence, the chance of him being illiterate was negligible, imv.
Even accepting your totally unsupported assertion that Jesus had any extraordinary intelligence, intelligence alone would not have provided him any access to a formal education. He would have needed to train in a rabbinical school or a Greek one and it's virtually impossible that the Galilean son of a artisan would have been provided with either.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:13 PM   #37
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'At the time of Christ literacy was widespread.
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Not in Palestine.
Because you insist on it?

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Israeli archaeology does not support this claim.
Archaeology changes its 'viewpoint' by the decade.

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Only by trained rabbis, not by the laity.
John the B and Jesus were rabbis, so that settles it!
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:42 PM   #38
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John the B and Jesus were rabbis, so that settles it!
Because you insist on it?
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:46 PM   #39
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Because you insist on it?


Archaeology changes its 'viewpoint' by the decade.

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Only by trained rabbis, not by the laity.
John the B and Jesus were rabbis, so that settles it!
"Rabbi" was a pretty generic term for teachers and preachers. By no means did everyone who was called by that title have formal training in one of the rabbinic schools.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:51 PM   #40
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Because you insist on it?


Archaeology changes its 'viewpoint' by the decade.


John the B and Jesus were rabbis, so that settles it!
"Rabbi" was a pretty generic term for teachers and preachers. By no means did everyone who was called by that title have formal training in one of the rabbinic schools.
There was no official training, no official rabbinate until sometime after 70 CE.
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