Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Astinus · 09-27-2005, 08:27 AM

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@Astinus: I remember that saluting the flag or pledging allegiance was standard operating procedure in former east block countries. It's quite baffling to see the same nationalism in a more democratic environment. Unfortunately there is no way to get rid of this type of indoctrination, whereas removing god might stand a chance.

Well, there is a way. It's just not going to happen.

Mathew Goldstein · 09-27-2005, 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=Astinus]

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Well, there is a way. It's just not going to happen.

Although I am inclined to agree with that sentiment in this context, it is also true that history shows that sometimes things happen in part because some people willed it to happen even though some years earlier few thought such a change would be possible.

Splat · 09-27-2005, 08:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Cross_

The mantra (or "framing") should be a return to the original pledge.

"The Sermon on the Mount forbids the pledge" (or something to that effect, but catchy) would also be a pretty good frame.

JC makes it pretty clear that he doesn't truck with swearing oaths, and pledge-saying is optional because 7th Day Adventists (or was it the JWs?) actually bothered to read the bible and took their refusal all the way to SCOTUS.

Javaman · 09-28-2005, 03:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Cross_

Excluding minorities is a great idea for a unifying pledge. Let's see, according to the last census data the USA consists of ca. 80% whites, so how about "one nation of whites, under god" ?
Certainly covers the majority of people and why would any non-white people make a fuss about that ?

I thought about that in this post I made a few year ago. (sorry about the old-school formatting) but the flaw I found was that you couldn't convert to whiteness if you 'saw the light'.

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