burning flames

http://mercifultruth.com/index.html

the website preaches that hell is an invented idea, that salvation is universal, and that punishment is not forever

it goes into intention, meaning and definition of various greek or hebrew words.

is this a scholastically valid approach?

Toto

Do you mean scholastically or scholarly? I skimmed the part on Hell, and it looks reasonable. I think you will find some similar threads here on the derivation of Hell.

But I don't think that most scholars will get involved with opinions on universal salvation - that's a theological question.

Roger Pearse

This site all seems rather muddled, actually. There are several possible positions from which they could write, but none of them make sense.

If they are preaching a religion of their own invention, in which all humans are "saved" (how? from what? why? for what?), then of course they need to explain how they come to know all the things they assert about the universe, offer evidence that these are true, etc. How the bible of the Christians fits into their own religion is not explained, so neither is the relevance of their quotations of it. Doubtless the authors can offer evidence of divine revelation, their own holiness of life, ability to work miracles, and all the other things that might incline a man to suppose himself dealing with a prophet associated with some form of divinity. But since they do not, I don't see how we can pay any attention to their assertions, on this basis. All the Christian-type vocabulary, on this thesis, is meaningless, since they are in fact claiming authority of their own to pronounce on religious questions.

But on the other hand if they profess to tell us what the Christians believe, then they are mistaken. It requires trivial knowledge of the New Testament to tell us what Jesus said on this subject, and what he said is repeated without any of this havering by the members of the organisation that he founded down to the present day. They themselves quote Gibbon's mistranslation of Tertullian, De spectaculis 31, which nevertheless demonstrates that in the second century Christians had no such idea as they suppose. Of course they might say different; in which case we would need to see every early Christian text that discusses the subject tabulated. This they do not do, of course.

Alternatively, if they assert that they understand the text of the NT better than the early Christians, who spoke Greek as their native language, then of course we would need to see some evidence for such an assertion, and judge it on its merits. But I don't see this here.

Alternatively, if they assert that they have evidence that the NT was understood differently in the early church and then a concept of "hell" invented, then of course we want to know by whom it was invented and when, and to see the ancient data base that justifies this idea.

You see, I see none of these in their page. Instead what I see is a general presumption that the truth can be found in the bible of the Christians, combined with a rejection of the statements of that bible which they happen to find inconvenient; that the early Christians didn't understand the bible, while any attempt to wrest its sense can be justified with assertions about bits of Greek and Hebrew; and an interesting mix with stale 19th century polemic against how hell is "barbaric", based on an unacknowledged appeal to the "sweetness and light" ideas of that period.

In short, in my humble opinion this is not an intellectually respectable page, but a collection of wishful ideas, not properly thought through or set out. Whatever their position, in its own terms, it either doesn't make sense, isn't true, or is not shown. Surely?

Besides, who wants to share eternity with atheists? :devil3:

All the best,

Roger Pearse

fatpie42

Aren't theologians scholars then?

Toto

I should have said scholarly secular historians. This forum focuses on history and textual criticism, not theology.

burning flames

every word (I think) translated as hell in the NT

2Pe 2:4 - For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,

Ac 2:24 - But God raised him up, having freed him from death, because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.

Ac 2:27 - For thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades, nor let thy Holy One see corruption.

Ac 2:31 - he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Jas 3:6 - And the tongue is a fire. The world of iniquity among our members is the tongue, which defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by Gehenna.

Lu 10:15 - And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.

Lu 12:5 - But I will warn you whom you shall fear. Fear him, who after he has killed, has power to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Lu 16:22 - The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. (The verse does not add “in hell.”)

Lu 16:23 - and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom.

Mr 9:43 - If your hand should cause you to sin, cut it off: it would be better for you to enter into Life maimed, than remain in possession of both your hands and go away into Gehenna, into the fire which cannot be put out.

Mr 9:45 - Or if your foot should cause you to sin, cut it off: it would be better for you to enter into Life crippled, than remain in possession of both your feet and be thrown into Gehenna.

Mr 9:47 - Or if your eye should cause you to sin, tear it out. It would be better for you to enter into the Kingdom of God half-blind than remain in possession of two eyes and be thrown into Gehenna,

Mt 10:28 - Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Mt 11:23 - And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Mt 16:18 - And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Mt 18:9 - If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire.

Mt 23:15 - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna as yourselves.

Mt 23:33 - You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?

Mt 5:22 - But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca,' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna.

Mt 5:29 - If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. For it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.

Mt 5:30 - If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not your whole body be cast into Gehenna.

Re 1:18 - and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Re 19:20 - And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Re 20:10 - And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Re 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

Re 20:14 - Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;

Re 20:15 - and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Re 6:8 - And I saw, and behold, a pale horse, and its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him; and they were given power over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

burning flames

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html


views of early church article that is pro universal salvation