Freethought & Rationalism Archive

arnoldo · 02-13-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transient

If god is real then he wants hearts not money.
He does not need money.
If getting a person to give all they have is the only way for them to be free to worship him honestly and in truth then that is the way it is.
I do not believe that such a god would require everyone to go down the same path. Some are able to obey god without being too attached to money, others not so able.
One could give all their possessions to the poor and still not please god if they did not give their heart to him. . .

Well said, the Apostle Paul said something similar to your last point. .

Quote:

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

rhettboy · 02-13-2009, 05:52 AM

I like the third option.:notworthy:

dog-on · 02-13-2009, 05:53 AM

Perhaps selling/giving away all your possessions made sense prior to the time that Christians had any actual political power.

I suppose, once they actually ran the show, it was probably discussed a bit less...

dettus · 02-13-2009, 05:54 AM

put up or shut up!

xaxxat · 02-13-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

It reminds me of the GK Chesterton quote: "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."

That's the sort of rhetoric the assuredness of centuries of hegemony leads to. It has nothing to do with reality, just religious smugness and elitism.

spin

+1 on that...

xaxxat · 02-13-2009, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Rather than quote-mining the text, perhaps we might ask what the early church did. We see from Acts that there were different views on this.

More cafeteria xianity, perhaps?

Sheshbazzar · 02-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Rather than quote-mining the text, perhaps we might ask what the early church did. We see from Acts that there were different views on this.

The text of Acts 2:44-45 Acts 4:32-35 and Acts 5:1-11 is not obscure Roger, They sold all of their homes and lands, and delivered ALL of the proceeds to the Apostles, ALL wealth so generated was then held in collective common by The Church, and redistributed, as the Church saw fit

Certainly, yes, we can see from Acts that Ananias and Sapphira had a "different view".

Please feel free to supply us with a few of these "different views" from The Book of Acts that show that The Church members -did not- really "sell ALL"(Acts 2:44-45) and "hold all things in common" (4:32-35)

Not really even "cafeteria xianity" xaxxat, As those who have not made the personal sacrifices that The Lord commanded,
are not actually "members" of the Lord's Church, only frauds and pretenders no matter what name they might arrogantly think to call themselves by.
IF they be The Lord's servants, obedient to HIS word;

Let them first PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS-

Then, and only then, will they have gained that right to be The Lord's spokesmen.
Not only do these refuse Moses, but now even Him to whom they call "Lord"
saying "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
While they yet refuse to hear HIM, and refuse to DO according to ALL that which HE, and HIS Church, has so clearly commanded and has shown unto them.

Will HE not find this out? Have they not heard? Nay, generation to generation, long, so long, they have been warned, yet will not repent and DO.
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God."
This people draw near to ME with their lips, but their hearts are far from ME.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Call yourself a "Christian"? then DO ALL that which a Christian is commanded to DO.
GO! sell ALL that you have, and GIVE ALL of the money to The Lord's Church; la' Ha' E'bon'eem'o. (to The Poor of Him)

Transient · 02-13-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Rather than quote-mining the text, perhaps we might ask what the early church did. We see from Acts that there were different views on this.

The text of Acts 2:44-45 Acts 4:32-35 and Acts 5:1-11 is not obscure Roger, They sold all of their homes and lands, and delivered ALL of the proceeds to the Apostles, ALL wealth so generated was then held in collective common by The Church, and redistributed, as the Church saw fit

Certainly, yes, we can see from Acts that Ananias and Sapphira had a "different view".

Please feel free to supply us with a few of these "different views" from The Book of Acts that show that The Church members -did not- really "sell ALL"(Acts 2:44-45) and "hold all things in common" (4:32-35)

Not really even "cafeteria xianity" xaxxat, As those who have not made the personal sacrifices that The Lord commanded,
are not actually "members" of the Lord's Church, only frauds and pretenders no matter what name they might arrogantly think to call themselves by.
IF they be The Lord's servants, obedient to HIS word;

Let them first PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS-

Then, and only then, will they have gained that right to be The Lord's spokesmen.
Not only do these refuse Moses, but now even Him to whom they call "Lord"
saying "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
While they yet refuse to hear HIM, and refuse to DO according to ALL that which HE, and HIS Church, has so clearly commanded and has shown unto them.

Will HE not find this out? Have they not heard? Nay, generation to generation, long, so long, they have been warned, yet will not repent and DO.
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God."
This people draw near to ME with their lips, but their hearts are far from ME.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Call yourself a "Christian"? then DO ALL that which a Christian is commanded to DO.
GO! sell ALL that you have, and GIVE ALL of the money to The Lord's Church; la' Ha' E'bon'eem'o. (to The Poor of Him)

Sounds a great way for a church leader to make a heap of money lol.
But maybe he wouldn't get any followers at all and then I guess he would have to walk around in rags and ride a rusty old push bike and live in a tent in a park.

GakuseiDon · 02-13-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Call yourself a "Christian"? then DO ALL that which a Christian is commanded to DO.
GO! sell ALL that you have, and GIVE ALL of the money to The Lord's Church; la' Ha' E'bon'eem'o. (to The Poor of Him)

In Luke 22:36, Jesus said:

Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

Should Christians nowadays sell their garments and buy swords? Should all of the disciples back then have sold their garments and bought swords?

mountainman · 02-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Here is what Emperor Julian thought about the advice
concerning "selling possessions" .... perhaps we can
reconstruct a vote for Julian on this poll?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMPEROR JULIAN

Listen to a fine statesmanlike piece of advice:

"Sell that ye have and give to the poor;
provide yourselves with bags which wax not old."

Can anyone quote a more statesmanlike ordinance than this?
For if all men were to obey you who would there be to buy?

Can anyone praise this teaching when, if it be carried out,
no city, no nation, not a single family will hold together?

For, if everything has been sold,
how can any house or family be of any value?

Moreover the fact that if everything in the city
were being sold at once there would be no one to trade
is obvious, without being mentioned.

(Neumann, frag. 12. From Cyril, Book 18, quoted by Photius.)

View Poll Results: Should good Christians sell all of their possessions?
Definitely	18	54.55%
They should only keep what is essential to survive	10	30.30%
No..Jesus was just kidding	3	9.09%
Only if done on EBAY	5	15.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-13-2009, 05:52 AM	#22
rhettboy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 872	I like the third option.:notworthy:

02-13-2009, 05:53 AM	#23
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	Perhaps selling/giving away all your possessions made sense prior to the time that Christians had any actual political power. I suppose, once they actually ran the show, it was probably discussed a bit less...

02-13-2009, 05:54 AM	#24
dettus Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: where apologists for religion are deservedly derid Posts: 6,298	put up or shut up!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.