LogicandReason

Jesus teaches a pretty clear lesson when in conversation with the Rich Young Ruler: to follow me you will need to dispose of your wealth. Does anyone disagree?

Let's look at the story: 1) the RYR comes to Jesus and asks "Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?" 2)Here I would expect Jesus to offer his John 3:18 advise, about belief, but he does not. Rather, Jesus advises him to follow the commandments (quoting tenets of the 10 commandments and the golden rule). 3) When the RYR replies that he has done that Jesus further adds: "Go sell all that you have and give the proceeds to the poor." 4)The RYR goes away dejected.

A couple of thoughts here: 1) Jesus thought and taught that the 'Kingdom of God' was arriving and the 'end of times' was eminent (Matt 24:34)...neither turned out to be true. 2) Jesus, when being directly asked about salvation, offers an answer about 'works' and not 'belief' in him...why the contradiction to his normal soteriology formula? 3) I'm assuming the RYR wealth separated him from the 'Kingdom of God' because of his love of money...what makes you any different today? 4) This tells us a lot about the initial Christian communities, they were poor ignorant people who wanted relief from the dominance of the government and retribution against those who had wealth, 5) Matthew, in Chapter 19, was inconsistent about how a person merits salvation (I believe the answer is that nobody does...it is accomplished through belief and God's grace), and 6) Wealth and Christianity don't mix.

It would be helpful if Matthew had told us more about the RYR. Did he inherit his wealth? Was his wealth built on the exploitation of others? Are all rich people exempt from the 'Kingdom of Heaven?' Luke thought so (18:25) as he states that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy person to enter the 'Kingdom of Heaven.' I know the Christian exegesis that the 'eye of a needle' is a reference to a gate in Jerusalem (this would only make Jesus' example non-sense).

Why do Christians not sell all their earthly possessions and go follow their Lord? Was this just a suggestion? :huh:

Iskander

Matthew 25 The Parable of the Talents

Religion does not turn humans into obedient dogs, but lack of it may turn some into clowns..

LogicandReason

I'm thinking that the parable above is meant to encourage people to share their natural talents with others and is not an investment scheme. What to larges houses, flat screens and Jesus have in common...besides his adherents?

I see Jesus in Mark 10 and Matt 19 as offering a completely different soteriology that he does in John 3:18....does this mean that both are required?

There are some other examples: Matt 8:18-20 makes it clear that Jesus expects his followers to have nothing. In Matt 6:25-34 heis explicit about trusting God for one's food and clothes.

I'm beginning to suspect that most people simply pay lip service to these edicts.

Iskander

Salvation is the commodity that all religions sell; it comes in a comprehensive package that includes eternal bliss. Sometimes, salvation from disaster is emphasised and in other occasions eternal bliss is the selling point.

Some religions offer salvation from hell, rebirth, others offer havens, nirvana, and so forth.

All religions have texts written by god, allah, hashem, brahman and so on informing humans what they should do in order to be eternally happy after death, and so on and on.

So, how does Christianity fit into all that?

Salvation is very easy in Christianity and very few Christians are worried by it.
Catholics confess their sins to a priest and they are forgiven.
Normal Protestants go directly to god and know that the grace of god is theirs ‘

The Christian god requires very little from Christians.
The new testament is only about 12 pages in four very similar versions saying the same, It means they can dress as they like, eat the food they like and so on.

The Christian Gospels may appear contradictory or repetitive but all scriptures suffer from the same defects.

I’ll finish now. Christians do not pay lip service to their god, but they are grateful for their social and political and whatever freedom and expect to be forgiven.

spin

This poll has nothing at all to do with BC&H.


spin

Ben C Smith

I agree.

Ben.

Toto

The OP seems to raise a number of issues of Biblical interpretation.

The poll itself has no scientific value, as they say of internet polls.

GakuseiDon

I've heard it argued that Jesus was specifically talking to the RYR, because of the RYR's love of money. It's about how people can obey God and still be attached to the world. Whether this is the meaning of the story or not, I can't say. The passage is part of a longer one dealing with "Who can be saved?" I think the verses that come after are an important part of what is being said:

Luk 18:18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luk 18:19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
Luk 18:20 "You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'!"
Luk 18:21 And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth."
Luk 18:22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Luk 18:23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, "How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!
Luk 18:25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Luk 18:26 And those who heard it said, "Who then can be saved?"
Luk 18:27 But He said, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
Luk 18:28 Then Peter said, "See, we have left all and followed You."
Luk 18:29 So He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,
Luk 18:30 "who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life."

Sheshbazzar

The instruction to sell all possessions was not to the wealthy alone, but -everyone- who would be his disciple was told to sell their possessions, homes, and lands, and to forsake and leave their natural families, and follow Him, and GO! forth and preach the gospel into all the world.

One wanted to first bury his dead father, Jesus rebuked him with And Jesus rebuked him with; That this was the understanding of the early believers is also manifest in Acts 2:44-45
This is further revealed by Acts 4
And Acts 5
The demand was for a 100% turnover of all proceeds to the church's leaders.
In effect what Peter told Ananias was, to be among us, you knew that you must surrender ALL.

Ananias had been free to keep all or as much as he wanted of his possessions, property, or its proceeds, "in (his) own power",
IF he remained outside of that communion of the believers, all of whom had sacrificed everything as a condition of membership.

But admission into that fellowship required that ALL wealth to be transferred to the Apostles hands, ("in their power") to be redistributed as the church's hierarchy saw fit.
Complete religiously mandated and enforced "communisim".

Ananias and Sapphira went into a "private business meeting" with Pete and his "young men", and were carried out as two dead bodies.
Messing with Pete and his gang was like messing with "the God father" and his mafioso. We say, you pay, capice?


As LogicandReason said above "I'm beginning to suspect that most people simply pay lip service to these edicts."
There are very few practicing Christians to be found; A lot of claimants but few practitioners, That DO his commandments.

GakuseiDon

I apologise to you and LogicandReason if my reading offends.

(ETA) It reminds me of the GK Chesterton quote: "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."