Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DrJim · 10-11-2009, 09:18 AM

Hi.
I'm wondering if there would be any interest among the decidedly pro-secularism biblical scholars for making a more or less formal association that can champion secular academic standards at the Society of Biblical Literature. There is, of course, a lot of good work that goes on in organizations like the SBL, but they grant "affiliated" status to associations with overt theological agendas at their meetings and crypto-theology often spills over into the SBL's own sessions.

I'm hoping that a pro-secular association could be formed that could also attain "affiliate" status and host a session or two at the big national SBL meeting in a year or two. The SBL has granted such a status to "bibliobloggers" although there is no formal organization for folks who blog on the bible (and most are faithbased).

Anyway, I've raised the issue on my (not widely read) blog, and I have a couple of SBL members interested. If anyone else here wants to think out loud about it, make a comment here or on the blog (that also has my email addy) or PM me through FRDB.

In the very least, it might be fun to get together for a godless beer in New Orleans this November.

My very diplomatic blog post on the subject.

Toto · 10-11-2009, 09:42 AM

I read your blog, and not just for the lolcats.

Does Robert Price participate in SBL?

DrJim · 10-11-2009, 09:57 AM

I have a fan! Whoopie! Most of the people who end up there come after searches for dinosaur pictures. "T. rex" is my most popular search term. I don't know why.

I just checked the program book and Robert Price doesn't appear to be in it. He might be registered to attend. The problem with me organizing anything like this is that I don't really know many people and don't mingle or network well.

Celsus · 10-11-2009, 02:15 PM

You need Tyrannosaurs in F-14s if you really want to win em over I think

You may remember my abortive attempts to kickstart a blog carnival or whatever... I'd definitely support such a project but I've really no time to actually contribute regularly atm as I'm in the middle of doing a masters in a completely unrelated field. I would happily join as a fee-paying member and could contribute from time to time.

I think a clear project or vision would be necessary to give it a raison d'etre. Obviously the annoyance with theology-masquerading-as-research is as good as any but it would need to be a bit more diplomatic I suppose.

But then that leads to aligning closer to the minimalist framework if you don't want to be as overt and that's a bit problematic too.

Perhaps (and like you I'm just thinking aloud), it would work to coopt "historiography" for a Biblical study agenda somehow, emphasising deconstruction of the overblown importance of literary sources and working from the "ground up" like Liverani's history of Israel. Of course that throws out everything in NT scholarship but that doesn't worry me a lot

mountainman · 10-11-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celsus

Perhaps (and like you I'm just thinking aloud), it would work to coopt "historiography" for a Biblical study agenda somehow ...

But what good would that do the SBL? According to Momigliano Eusebius is the inventor of Christian Ecclesiastical "Historiography". Does the SBL have a branch called "Eusebian Studies"? Does the SBL study "The Little Mermaid"?

"Let us leap and bound throughout the three hundred years that we have to live."

Would the SBL be happy to receive papers which present the subject matter of the new testament to be either a fiction or a myth? You tell me.

"The immense authority which Eusebius gained was well deserved. He had continuators but no rivals. Simple and majestic Eusebius of Caesarea claims for himself the merit of having invented ecclesiastical history. This merit cannot be disputed.

The Classical Foundations of Modern Historiography, Arnaldo Momigliano Sather Classical Lectures (1961-62), Volume Fifty-Four, University of California Press, 1990, pp.138

DrJim · 10-12-2009, 11:54 AM

Mountainman,
Whether a paper accepted for the SBL meeting or not would be up to the folks running the individual sessions and not the SBL admin itself.

I'm not sure how much "censorship" of ideas would be in approving whole sessions dedicated to the subjects that interest you. I'm not a New Testament guy so I'm not going to wade into the evidence or lack thereof for Jesus as an historical figure.

If some kind of association of secularists could be formed (and judging from SBL's affiliation with "bibliobloggers" it need not be a very formal association) and affiliate status gained, then that association would have a lot of independence in terms what topics it chose to devote a session towards.

Best wishes,
Jim

mountainman · 10-12-2009, 04:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Jim. The question of an Atheist and Agnostic Academic Association Affiliated with the Society of Biblical Literature sounds like a symbiosis. On the notion of --- "censorship" of ideas --- and its presence within the SBL we might be kind and ascribe such acts as efforts to maintain (perhaps even enforce) a suitable decorum over the seriousness of the search for the historical Jesus. Seriousness, or "gravitas, was a Roman virtue.

'Weight' was the quality they most respected; 'Gravitas' was the typical Roman virtue.
By 'gravitas' they meant the type of personality that must be taken seriously;
they were serious men themselves and they demanded that they should be treated with respect."

--- The Roman Character, SPQR; Kennedy & White (1944)

DrJim · 10-12-2009, 04:31 PM

Oops, I should not have capitalized "Affiliated". The theological groups that have an "affiliate" status are, if I understand it correctly, are free to do pretty much what they want at the SBL meetings, they are just given some rooms and a spot on the schedule. Outside of the meetings, the SBL has no say in their affairs at all. No idea what kind of hoops one must go through to get such a status, though.

I've presented papers there, but beyond that, how it works is a mystery. I imagine it would take some time to get the critical mass of people interested in it (as someone suggested to me elsewhere). Still, no point not trying!

Toto · 10-12-2009, 04:49 PM

Speaking of gravitas, I want to know more about "SBL Ideological Criticism Session talking about Religulous." Can a proper theologian maintain gravitas while discussing a parody of religion?

semiopen · 10-13-2009, 06:42 AM

I'm a member of the AJS (Association of Jewish Studies) and have attended one of their annual conferences. Many of the men are Modern Orthodox, but during the sessions it is not easy to determine the religious beliefs of the people there.

I'm a little surprised that an organization like the Society of Biblical Literature would have a need for a group championng "secular academic standards."

10-11-2009, 09:18 AM	#1
DrJim Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lethbridge AB Canada Posts: 445	Agnostic / Atheist Biblical Scholars and the SBL Hi. I'm wondering if there would be any interest among the decidedly pro-secularism biblical scholars for making a more or less formal association that can champion secular academic standards at the Society of Biblical Literature. There is, of course, a lot of good work that goes on in organizations like the SBL, but they grant "affiliated" status to associations with overt theological agendas at their meetings and crypto-theology often spills over into the SBL's own sessions. I'm hoping that a pro-secular association could be formed that could also attain "affiliate" status and host a session or two at the big national SBL meeting in a year or two. The SBL has granted such a status to "bibliobloggers" although there is no formal organization for folks who blog on the bible (and most are faithbased). Anyway, I've raised the issue on my (not widely read) blog, and I have a couple of SBL members interested. If anyone else here wants to think out loud about it, make a comment here or on the blog (that also has my email addy) or PM me through FRDB. In the very least, it might be fun to get together for a godless beer in New Orleans this November. My very diplomatic blog post on the subject.

10-12-2009, 04:19 PM	#7
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Thanks for the reply Jim. The question of an Atheist and Agnostic Academic Association Affiliated with the Society of Biblical Literature sounds like a symbiosis. On the notion of --- "censorship" of ideas --- and its presence within the SBL we might be kind and ascribe such acts as efforts to maintain (perhaps even enforce) a suitable decorum over the seriousness of the search for the historical Jesus. Seriousness, or "gravitas, was a Roman virtue. 'Weight' was the quality they most respected; 'Gravitas' was the typical Roman virtue. By 'gravitas' they meant the type of personality that must be taken seriously; they were serious men themselves and they demanded that they should be treated with respect." --- The Roman Character, SPQR; Kennedy & White (1944)

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10-11-2009, 09:42 AM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I read your blog, and not just for the lolcats. Does Robert Price participate in SBL?

10-11-2009, 09:57 AM	#3
DrJim Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lethbridge AB Canada Posts: 445	I have a fan! Whoopie! Most of the people who end up there come after searches for dinosaur pictures. "T. rex" is my most popular search term. I don't know why. I just checked the program book and Robert Price doesn't appear to be in it. He might be registered to attend. The problem with me organizing anything like this is that I don't really know many people and don't mingle or network well.

10-11-2009, 02:15 PM	#4
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	You need Tyrannosaurs in F-14s if you really want to win em over I think You may remember my abortive attempts to kickstart a blog carnival or whatever... I'd definitely support such a project but I've really no time to actually contribute regularly atm as I'm in the middle of doing a masters in a completely unrelated field. I would happily join as a fee-paying member and could contribute from time to time. I think a clear project or vision would be necessary to give it a raison d'etre. Obviously the annoyance with theology-masquerading-as-research is as good as any but it would need to be a bit more diplomatic I suppose. But then that leads to aligning closer to the minimalist framework if you don't want to be as overt and that's a bit problematic too. Perhaps (and like you I'm just thinking aloud), it would work to coopt "historiography" for a Biblical study agenda somehow, emphasising deconstruction of the overblown importance of literary sources and working from the "ground up" like Liverani's history of Israel. Of course that throws out everything in NT scholarship but that doesn't worry me a lot

10-12-2009, 11:54 AM	#6
DrJim Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lethbridge AB Canada Posts: 445	Mountainman, Whether a paper accepted for the SBL meeting or not would be up to the folks running the individual sessions and not the SBL admin itself. I'm not sure how much "censorship" of ideas would be in approving whole sessions dedicated to the subjects that interest you. I'm not a New Testament guy so I'm not going to wade into the evidence or lack thereof for Jesus as an historical figure. If some kind of association of secularists could be formed (and judging from SBL's affiliation with "bibliobloggers" it need not be a very formal association) and affiliate status gained, then that association would have a lot of independence in terms what topics it chose to devote a session towards. Best wishes, Jim

10-12-2009, 04:31 PM	#8
DrJim Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lethbridge AB Canada Posts: 445	Oops, I should not have capitalized "Affiliated". The theological groups that have an "affiliate" status are, if I understand it correctly, are free to do pretty much what they want at the SBL meetings, they are just given some rooms and a spot on the schedule. Outside of the meetings, the SBL has no say in their affairs at all. No idea what kind of hoops one must go through to get such a status, though. I've presented papers there, but beyond that, how it works is a mystery. I imagine it would take some time to get the critical mass of people interested in it (as someone suggested to me elsewhere). Still, no point not trying!

10-12-2009, 04:49 PM	#9
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Speaking of gravitas, I want to know more about "SBL Ideological Criticism Session talking about Religulous." Can a proper theologian maintain gravitas while discussing a parody of religion?

10-13-2009, 06:42 AM	#10
semiopen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 3,551	I'm a member of the AJS (Association of Jewish Studies) and have attended one of their annual conferences. Many of the men are Modern Orthodox, but during the sessions it is not easy to determine the religious beliefs of the people there. I'm a little surprised that an organization like the Society of Biblical Literature would have a need for a group championng "secular academic standards."

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