Freethought & Rationalism Archive

FatherMithras · 04-02-2005, 02:22 PM

Can people show me where in the New Testament it reaffirms that the Bible is the word of God, please?

TheBigKahoona · 04-02-2005, 02:41 PM

Do the first few verses of the book of John count?

Toto · 04-02-2005, 03:05 PM

2 Timothy 3: 16 is usually cited in support of this dubious proposition. (This page lists the various ways of translationg that verse.)

Amaleq13 · 04-02-2005, 03:09 PM

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim 3:16)

Zeichman · 04-02-2005, 04:57 PM

The intro to Luke seems to suppose that his version is authoritative, though it says nothing of Inspiration.

Toto · 04-02-2005, 05:32 PM

But the author of Luke only claims that he researched prior material, not that he was inspired by God to write the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Quote:

3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

John A. Broussard · 04-02-2005, 05:55 PM

If we accept Timothy's statement as proof, then don't we have to determine what he meant by "scripture?" Does it include the Koran, the Rig Veda, Science and Health and the Key to the Scriptures?

I almost forgot Joseph Smith's golden tablets. Wouldn't they qualify as scripture?

Toto · 04-02-2005, 06:17 PM

Scripture means "writing" but it has the implication of "holy writing" or "holy writing per my religion."

The early Christians tended to use "Scripture" to refer to the Jewish holy writings. They didn't know about the Rig Veda or the scriptures to come, including the Qur'an, the Book of Moroni, or, for that matter, the New Testament, which had not been canonized at the time that the Epistle to Timothy was written.

Which brings us back to the question in the OP.

I would submit that the NT does not state that it is the word of God.

judge · 04-03-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherMithras

Can people show me where in the New Testament it reaffirms that the Bible is the word of God, please?

I have a theory that when protestants rejected the authority of Rome they were forced to suggest that they instead relied upon the "very word of God".

They insisted they had a superior authority, but one can't have this unless what they have is trustworthy.

Chris Weimer · 04-03-2005, 04:51 AM

Well, depending on if the author of Luke-Acts wrote the Pastorals, then there's a good chance that 2 Timothy 3:16 was both a self reference to the authoritative history written by himself and the verse just in disguise of Paul (much like Marcion's actions regarding the Pauline text and his Euaggelion) and also a development of his "quote" of Paul in Acts about worshipping the unknown god, i.e. all things, not just then deemed holy writings, but literally everything is from God in some sense including pagan writings, which was often echoed later in the admiration of such wisdom endowed Greeks as Socrates who some Christians viewed as being inspired by the Universal Logos aka Christ aka Ho Theos.

04-02-2005, 02:22 PM	#1
FatherMithras Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 3,890	NT word of God Can people show me where in the New Testament it reaffirms that the Bible is the word of God, please?

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04-02-2005, 02:41 PM	#2
TheBigKahoona Regular Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 171	Do the first few verses of the book of John count?

04-02-2005, 03:05 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	2 Timothy 3: 16 is usually cited in support of this dubious proposition. (This page lists the various ways of translationg that verse.)

04-02-2005, 03:09 PM	#4
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim 3:16)

04-02-2005, 04:57 PM	#5
Zeichman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 562	The intro to Luke seems to suppose that his version is authoritative, though it says nothing of Inspiration.

04-02-2005, 05:55 PM	#7
John A. Broussard Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 6,629	If we accept Timothy's statement as proof, then don't we have to determine what he meant by "scripture?" Does it include the Koran, the Rig Veda, Science and Health and the Key to the Scriptures? I almost forgot Joseph Smith's golden tablets. Wouldn't they qualify as scripture?

04-02-2005, 06:17 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Scripture means "writing" but it has the implication of "holy writing" or "holy writing per my religion." The early Christians tended to use "Scripture" to refer to the Jewish holy writings. They didn't know about the Rig Veda or the scriptures to come, including the Qur'an, the Book of Moroni, or, for that matter, the New Testament, which had not been canonized at the time that the Epistle to Timothy was written. Which brings us back to the question in the OP. I would submit that the NT does not state that it is the word of God.

04-03-2005, 04:51 AM	#10
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Well, depending on if the author of Luke-Acts wrote the Pastorals, then there's a good chance that 2 Timothy 3:16 was both a self reference to the authoritative history written by himself and the verse just in disguise of Paul (much like Marcion's actions regarding the Pauline text and his Euaggelion) and also a development of his "quote" of Paul in Acts about worshipping the unknown god, i.e. all things, not just then deemed holy writings, but literally everything is from God in some sense including pagan writings, which was often echoed later in the admiration of such wisdom endowed Greeks as Socrates who some Christians viewed as being inspired by the Universal Logos aka Christ aka Ho Theos.

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