sky kunde

Hi, folks!

Question: is there any 1st century writing denying the crucifixion of Jesus, like the muslims do?

Javaman

There are a few documents out there and I'll look for more if I have time. In our own library here there is this from the sometimes unreliable Kersey Graves: Chapter 16: Sixteen Saviors Crucified

Javaman

Apparently there's some confusion about Irenaeus (also spelled Iranaeus and mentioned above). Though there are many pages to read on this, here is a short article with the basics:

Irenaeus Debunks Gospels

That may be more reliable than Graves.

robto

Irenaeus is definitely 2nd-century, tho, and he doesn't deny the crucifixion, just says Jesus was old when it happened.

There are very few 1st century sources outside the NT. Didache, Gospel of Thomas, Barnabas, possibly the Shepherd of Hermas are about it. None of these deny the crucifixion, tho Thomas (like Q) doesn't mention it, IIRC.

Julian

Does docetism count? If so, it is quite possible that some gnostics of that persuasion could be traced into the 1st century.

Julian

funinspace

When did the Jews make their first counter claim against the crucifiction/resurection of Jesus? I thought that was somewhere near 100AD, but can't remember.

FatherMithras

Well, we don't know exactly when the legend of the crucifiction actually became a part of the religion. If the basis for the legend actually was crucified, why would anyone care to attempt to discredit a small cult that they probably didn't know much about? They may have heard "Our leader was crucified and came back from the dead" and thought, "He was crucifed AND came back from the dead? you sure he didn't stay dead?".

darstec

One must remember that there are no civil war era counterclaims denying that Brett Butler told Charlotte that he didn't give a damn either. So for those who mght argue that nobody denied the crucifixion or the existance of Jesus during the first century, would also have to accept the entire book of Gone With The Wind as complete truth on the same basis. After all there is mention of Atlanta Georgia and we know this to be a real place.

And I do not recall one a single instance of dispute of any of the information contained in the Lord of the Rings most especially during the First, Second and early Third Ages. In fact all those saying the events depicted in The Lord of the Rings are fiction have not done so until the late 20th century. :Cheeky:

Boro Nut

That's forgivable I suppose. You must have been quite young at the time. Anyway, if there’s one thing growing up in the Middle East teaches you it’s not to waste your time swatting flies until they become bothersome.

Boro Nut

I Love Jesus

I read that link, then read Irenaeus Against Heresies chapter 22 (context is important) and it is absolutely absurd to claim that Irenaeus said Jesus did not die on the Cross, but died of old age instead. And the Trajan comment obviously referred to John, as the next sentence clearly indicates. The website should be named to "grasping at straws."