Steve Weiss

How about Luke 19:27 or the Old Testament command to stone to death one's kids if they are disobedient? That sounds like a major holocaust to me.

Chris Weimer

Don't try bothering with a comeback to that one. While some still think that Matthew wanted all of the law followed, that position is one that is weakening every year.

Chris Weimer

I wouldn't bother with this either. It undermines other arguments. Besides, it doesn't say that it has to be followed. The Old Testament is still used in Christian churches, for studying, for teaching, for "correction"...but it isn't always followed to the T.

spamandham

Unfortunately, Luke 19:27 is part of a parable, which means they can dismiss it with "oh he was just using language and situations his audience would appreciate". Christians mostly dismiss the Old Testament altogether because apparently, Jesus 'fulfilled' it away, which seems to mean, you can safely ignore everything from the Old Testament except the 10 commandments, a couple of verses that condemn homosexuality, and tithing.

Nazaroo

This all seems so lame. Like the title to this thread.

If you don't know enough about Christianity to debate its doctrines, ethics, or even make a broad comparison between it and Islam, just how are you going to 'enlighten your Christian buddy'?

This really seems like the knee-jerk reaction every empty-headed non-thinker pulls when made uncomfortable by someone challenging the belief system they've absorbed without thinking from their 'post-Christian' academic culture.

Basically, the train of thought seems to be this:

"I know my friend must be wrong, and completely misguided,
but I don't have a clue how or where, he's just different than me,
and he's making me feel really embarrassed 'cause I don't have any
intelligent answers to his strange challenges, and like, can somebody
help me here and do all the work for me?
Specifically the thinking I mean.
You guys all agree with me, right?"

Wow. Like why not just dump your friend if he's a Christian and you are not.

Show some balls.

Nazaroo

Perhaps it never occurred to you before, because its such an inept piece of non-reasoning.

The reason serious atheist and agnostic scholars don't make arguments like this, is because it rates at pre-school level.

spamandham

You've moved beyond simply what's in the Bible and into the domain of Christian doctrine.

spamandham

If you read the OP carefully, the debate he is having centers on what the Bible says, not Christian dogma.

spacejunkie

First of all I know enough about Christianity to know that it’s a ridiculous superstition that should be challenged at every reasonable opportunity. Secondly I wasn’t trying to make a broad comparison between Christianity and Islam. I was attempting to demonstrate how parts of the Bible can be used just as easily as parts of the Qu’ran by religious zealots who wish to lob criticisms at each other. To be clear, my intention was to highlight hypocrisy not to defend Islam.

On the contrary I welcome the challenge to my belief system. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable at all. However I admit that it’s sometimes hard for me to humble my feelings of intellectual superiority when debating religious people about dogma.

Your right I do believe that my friend is wrong and misguided on this particular subject. Since this thread died three weeks ago I’ve read much of the Qu’ran (I had already read the Bible, which is something my Christian friend hasn't done yet). I’ve discovered that his Bible condones the murder of infidels more viciously then the Qu’ran does. His beliefs have embarrassed me only to the extent that his ignorance has betrayed his hypocrisy to others and yet I stand by him as a friend and defend him as a good man.

BTW I couldn’t care less about my reputation on II. I’m just hear to learn and maybe even teach a bit.

Wow! Your right if I ever aspire to be a closed minded asshole I’ll consider that course of action. Thanks!

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Nazaroo

I agree that it should be challenged at every opportunity. How else can things improve. But that doesn't make it a 'ridiculous superstition', anymore than current scientific knowledge is.


I admire your candour and have felt the same way many times, in dealing both with religious people and other scientists.


This sounds interesting: Please elaborate. What objective scales are you using?


Nicodemus: "How can a man be both a viscious murderer and a hypocrite, and also a good man? Must he re-enter his mother's womb and stretch her beyond human endurance a second time?"

I am ready for a lesson.


You're welcome. You don't have to be a closed-minded asshole to cut your losses however.



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