spacejunkie

I had a conversation with a Christian friend the other day and he said that the Qu’ran commands Muslims to kill all infidels especially Christians and Jews. I informed him that the Bible commands believers kill infidels as well. He denied my claim and challenged me to show him where. So I made a little list: :devil1:

Exodus 22:20
Exodus 23:24
Exodus 32:27-29
Leviticus 24:10-23
Deuteronomy 13:1-18
2 Chronicles 15:13
Ezekiel 9:1-11 For idolatry. see Ezekiel 8
Luke 19:11-27 Jesus’ parable

First of all does anyone have any comments about, or good additions to, my list?

Secondly, my knowledge of the Qu’ran is lacking. Does it really say what he thinks it does or is it just biased propaganda? I tried searching a bit myself but I don’t have much time so no real success. Please help.

GenesisNemesis

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

http://www.evilbible.com

:wave:

driver8

From this article http://ezinearticles.com/?You-Shall-...gion&id=328067 come these fun little anecdotes, not necessarily about infidels, but just good ole fashion killing nonetheless:

Kill all who do not listen to their priests. Great idea! Even if they are wrong, no one is going to mention it.
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches, which today means environmentalists, Wiccans and those who go to church by sitting on rocks in rivers and in the mountains to think quietly about what life means to them.
"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Of course, Kill Homosexuals.
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill the nice lady who is a Fortuneteller. That's the job of the Priests and male Prophets.
"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Kill the kids who get a bit too angry with issues unresolved. Abraham taking Isaac up to sacrifice him without discussing it comes to mind.
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Kill the kids who don't hit the folks, but verbally respond inappropriately. The lamp going out thing is not mom and dad sayin' "night, night" as we might think.
"If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness." (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

Death for Adultery. Please keep in mind here, the issue is taking a man's property, not romance.
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

And for hormone flushed teens and single people, Death for Fornication. Prominent teens are a great example to others.
"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions, which would be most of the planet. Notice, there are other gods in this context, but the jealous god won't tolerate it.
"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers, which again would be most humans.
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets, which would have included Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel if you asked the right questions.
"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
"...you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God." Deuteronomy 13:13-19.

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night. Oi, How do they figure out who is and who isn't and who collects this information?
"But if this charge is true, and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death... (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions especially if they are you beloved partner or intimate friend.
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods...kill him... (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Kill Anyone, but Levites, who Approaches the Tabernacle
"...Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath. No wonder attendance is down.
"...Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Don't even think of being curious or wonder if what you are told is true. (How long does it take 50,000 men to look into the ark?
"And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men... (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Kill Sons of Sinners. Seems a bit unfair to me, but what do I know. This could make certain government types nervous.
"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Kill Men, Women, and Children, which is an oft repeated command.
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Generally mean killing. Be sure to kill the kids so the parents can die seeing it happen.
"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Cnote

I have been having this debate quite a bit too lately as xtian bigotry against Muslims is gaining momentum. My line is usually "it's not the religion, it's the culture/people/way they worship". Then I start rattling off the OT laws etc.

Usually the discussion takes a turn or stops there. However a few smarter xtians have come back at me with "well that's just OT law, xtianity is about the NT" to which I hit them with Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

A select few xtians have come back at me saying Jesus's love fulfilled the OT law and that it no longer applies as justified by the quotes below

Matthew 22
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Galatians 5:14

"But if ye are led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
Romans 13:8-10

I do not have a good comeback to this one and am interested if anyone does.

Malachi151

Well, the Luke passage where he says to bring the disbelievers before him and slay them, and the Matthew passage about bringing the sword, not peace, etc., not to mention the whole business about coming back to destroy the world....

Leptin Resistant

When I was discussing this with my fundie in-laws, I asked why they thought the God of the bible was loving when he killed innocents in the OT. Being dog trainers, they said that God loved those people, but he still had to kill them. Much like a dog trainer may love his or her dog, if that dog bites then you have to put it down. Using that mentality, they rationalize Leviticus 20:13 saying we can love homosexuals, but they also should be punished (which of course means die).
Of course there are many logical contradictions in this argument (and of course they listened to none of them when I brought them up) but this is the thinking I have come across.
Overall, the idea is that you can love someone, like Jesus says, and you still have to dish out the law, like in the OT. Kind of perverse sounding to me, but that is the general feel I get from Christianity anyway.

No Robots

Citation?

spacejunkie

It's in the OP, Luke 19:11-27. What about this one,

Where's that?

No Robots

But that passage in Luke is about having an unclean spirit. There is nothing about slaying unbelievers.

No Robots

Mt. 10:34