aa5874

There is an ABUNDANCE of evidence from apologetic sources that SHOW or tend to show that the Pauline writer was really AFTER the Fall of the Temple.

Justin Martyr in "First Apology" 39 claimed that it was 12 ILLITERATE men that preached the Gospel to every race of men in the world.

Aristides in "the Apology" also made a similar claim.

In "Against Heresies" 2. 22, the author was NOT aware of Paul and when he began to preach.

In Church History 3.48 and 6.25, it is claimed Paul was AWARE of gLuke.

And now, in the Muratorian Canon, we have a CLEAR statement that PAUL IMITATED his PREDECESSOR John and wrote to SEVEN Churches.

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...ian-latin.html

Excerpts from the Muratorian Canon.

Paul IMITATED the EXAMPLE of his PREDECESSOR John.

Toto

The author of the Muratorian Canon seems to have assumed that the John who wrote Revelation was identical with the apostle John, and that Revelation was an earlier work.

aeebee50

After Acts 15:39, I have questioned Paul. http://bible.cc/acts/15-39.htm I will have to do a lot of studying on Paul, but he is not in my schedule at this point.

aa5874

How you know that?

I can't deal with your unsubstantiated PRESUMPTIONS and IGNORE the written statement found in the Muratorian Canon.

It states CLEARLY that Paul IMITATED the Example of his PREDECESSOR John and wrote to Seven Churches.

Examine Revelation 1 attributed to John The author of the Muratorian Canon Clearly stated it was PAUL who IMITATED the EXAMPLE of John and wrote to Seven Churches.

Based on the Muratorian Canon and other APOLOGETIC sources it is CLEAR that there is evidence that the Pauline writings are LATE and AFTER the Fall of the Temple.

Toto

Sorry, I was unclear. The author of the MC seems to assume that the John of Revelation was the disciple John, which would make Revelation earlier that the fall of the Temple, and earlier than Paul.

It is later scholarship that has identified the John of Revelation with a different John and has dated Revelation to after the fall of the Temple, while retaining an early dating Paul's letters, to before the fall of the Temple.

aa5874

Sorry, your claim is still an unsubstantiated PRESUMPTION.

Regardless of when Revelation was written the author of the Muratorian Canon STATED that the Apostle Paul IMITATED the EXAMPLE of John his predecessor and wrote to Seven Churches.

Why have you MISSED a most logical conclusion that Paul WROTE his epistles using Revelation as his EXAMPLE?

Sometimes it amazes me how illogical you can be.

There are OTHER apologetic sources that suggest that the Pauline writings were LATE and AFTER the Fall of the Temple.

There is ZERO non-apologetic evidence that can show that the Pauline writings were written Before Revelation or can show that the Pauline writings were written before the Fall of the Jewish Temple c70 CE.

Sheshbazzar

The 'Pauline writings' covers a lot of 'stuff', and not all of that 'stuff' was necessarily written by Paul, or at the same time.

My view is that it is comprised of about 10% genuine Paul pre-Fall material, and 90% Pseudo-Paul post-Fall added fabrications.

aa5874

Well, "genuine" Paul would be After the Fall of the Temple based on the author of the Muratorian Canon so your figures are totally wrong.

aa5874

The writings attributed to Justin Martyr are EXTREMELY Significant.

Justin Martyr appears to believe in the character called Jesus Christ and called himself a Christian.

But, in the writings attributed Justin Martyr the character called Paul is MISSING.

Even Acts of the Apostles is Missing from the writings of Justin Martyr.

Justin Martyr does NOT use the Pauline teachings and doctrine at all.

Justin USED Revelation claimed to be written by John.

[u][b]"Dialogue with Trypho" LXXXI] The very Justin also claimed it was 12 ILLITERATE Men who preached the Gospel to every race of men throughout the world. Justin did NOT mentioned that Paul preached to the Gentiles all over the Roman Empire.

"First Apology" XXXIX The writings of Justin Martyr ALSO show that he was AWARE of REVELATION by John and NEVER mentioned the Pauline writings or Acts of the Apostles.

The Pauline writings are AFTER Revelation based on the Muratorian Canon and Justin Martyr.

aa5874

It is IMPERATIVE that we understand that the author of the Muratorian Canon, an APOLOGETIC source, claimed John was a PREDECESSOR of the Apostle Paul and that Paul IMITATED the Example of John and wrote to Seven Churches.

Now, Aristides in "The Apology" would also make statements about the disciples that show that he was UNAWARE of Paul and that he was UNAWARE that a character called Paul preached about Jesus to people all over the Roman Empire.

Examine "The Apology" attributed to Aristides Aristides, an APOLOGETIC source, has NOTHING about Paul. It was the TWELVE disciples of Jesus that preached the Gospel THROUGHOUT the world.

Now, Aristides, an APOLOGETIC source, was writing in the 2nd century when the Pauline writings should have already been circulated and that the FAME of Paul as a PIONEER should have been known.

Aristides corroborates Justin Martyr.

It was the 12 ILLITERATE Men, the 12 disciples, that Preached the Gospel to EVERY RACE of men throughout the Roman Empire.

Paul and the Pauline writings are AFTER Justin Martyr and Aristides.