Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Boro Nut · 03-24-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

Was Jesus A Magician?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Baggy sleeves. You work it out.

And turning wine into a wedding has been done loads of times. If he was any good surely they wouldn't have just prodded him a bit in the side with a spear. They would have sawed him in half. Then stuck him in the tomb with his feet sticking out so disciples could say "Surely this man is the son of god, see he can still wiggle his toes"

Boro Nut

Thomas II · 03-25-2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay

Hi Thomas II,

37: Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you."
The phrase "You have seen him and it is he who speaks to you" is odd. It should be "You see him now." The implication is that the man has seen him in the past, but he is only hearing him now.

Warmly,

Philospher Jay

Hmmm...#37 makes more sense translated:
"You only heard me before, but you see me now..."
There is no implication that the "blind man" saw Jesus before.

Regarding the issue you brought up, of Jesus doing or undoing God's will, I would say that it would have been God's will that the man was born blind, and it would be God's will that Jesus would heal him at that point in time...
Either way Jesus would be doing God's will.

Clivedurdle · 03-25-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
6: As he said this, he spat on the ground and made clay of the spittle and anointed the man's eyes with the clay,
7: saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Silo'am" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.

In this little story we have light, water, earth - three of the elements.

Maybe Jesus is the character in the play who carries out alchemic acts that have philosophic results - getting the blind to see, bringing together heaven and earth, bringing together god and man.

A little line later on about worshipping him.....Worshipping a human? THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS...

Looks to me like stuff written for theological and propaganda purposes.

(What were their beliefs about how eyes worked?)

Where else did Jesus fiddle around with clay? Gospel of Thomas, making clay birds that flew away! Alchemy!

Clivedurdle · 03-25-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

SILOAM was born in August 1995 when the co-founders Bernadette Kinniry, a Sister of Mercy, and Don Reilly, an Augustinian Friar, met and shared their dream for a ministry in the HIV/AIDS community. The word “SILOAM” means “one who is sent” and refers to a Jewish place of miracles where an angel came to heal those considered outcasts!

http://www.siloamministries.org/homepage.htm

I was wondering where the fourth element - breath or air - had got to, but it was there all the time at Siloam, where an angel lives!

Thomas II · 03-26-2006, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

In this little story we have light, water, earth - three of the elements.

Maybe Jesus is the character in the play who carries out alchemic acts that have philosophic results - getting the blind to see, bringing together heaven and earth, bringing together god and man.

A little line later on about worshipping him.....Worshipping a human? THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS...

Looks to me like stuff written for theological and propaganda purposes.

(What were their beliefs about how eyes worked?)

Where else did Jesus fiddle around with clay? Gospel of Thomas, making clay birds that flew away! Alchemy!

Good point about the elements, or conjuring the ELEMENTALS of those natural elements...Looks to me like a magical ritual...

This site points to that direction. I have no affiliation with it, and I am posting it just to develop the point that curses, spells, healings with rituals, walking on water,multiplication of food, healings,etc etc, are related to the magical...

http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amet...esuswitch.html

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