Robert Tulip

Thanks aa. Even if we were to concede Stephan's view that the therapeuts were primarily Jewish, you have again repeated the 'smoking guns' from Philo which prove they were not exclusively Jewish.

DM Murdock devotes a chapter to the Therapeuts in her superb book Christ In Egypt. Now while Stephan will of course apply his 'no true Scotsman' fallacy to anything Murdock writes, this book is illuminating regarding the syncretic culture that spawned Christianity. It shows that claims about Jewish exclusivism in Alexandria are a blind alley.

We are discussing the focal point of the Graeco-Jewish synthesis in the Common Era that gave rise to Christianity. Yet I am getting this vision from Stephan of the therapeuts as lubavitchers, living in the greatest hellenistic metropolis of the world but resolutely ignoring everything around them, despite their identity as attentive and contemplative healers.

We could well take this further, examining the abundant Egyptian influence on Christianity, for example the battle between Horus and Set as the model for the temptation of Christ by Satan in the wilderness, or the story of Osiris as the model for Lazarus, or Isis as model for Mary. These points of continuity of myth have been ignored and suppressed because they do not fit the church agenda of Jesus as a real historical supernatural individual. And yet, the therapeuts provide the crucible where these myths got mashed together to give new life to the old Egyptian Gods.

Toto

from p. 436I don't know where she got the Samaritans, but otherwise Murdock is clear that these were Jews, although she speculates about Buddhist influence and lists some practices that resemble sun worship. But these were Jews who had absorbed some of the surrounding culture, not a union of Jews and pagans.

I can't figure out what the dispute is about. Pete started this thread in an attempt to show that the history of a pagan group had been hijacked to become part of early Christian history. But there is no evidence that the standard analysis is not correct - that the Therapeutae were a Jewish group whose history was hijacked by Eusebius to be part of early Christian history. I would think that this would be satisfactory for his theory of Christian origins.

Toto

Actually, you don't. Murdock also notes that Jews were present in all quarters of Alexandria. Jews were all over the Roman Empire at this point.

No, you just have another indication of the range of meaning of therapeut.

Robert Tulip

'Cosmopolitan' was a modern disparaging euphemism for Jewish.

The therapeuts of Alexandria were primarily cosmopolitan Jews.

The problem in this thread is that Stephan said the suggestion that the therapeuts incorporated pagan traditions is "defiling". That is anti-cosmopolitan on Stephan's part.

As cosmopolitans, the therapeuts would have been like Terence, considering nothing human as alien. That is why scholars say the therapeuts of Alexandria had interests in Isis and Serapis. They were citizens of the world and did not consider the Egyptian heritage to be alien to them.

Robert Tulip

Yes.
Murdock further explores the Buddhist background of the Therapeuts at http://www.examiner.com/article/new-...buddhist-roots

stephan huller

Who at this forum gives a f---- about whether your guru gives her seal of approval on anything? Please cite actual evidence. What has this guy come up with? What is his background?

stephan huller

Oh now I see why you didn't want to provide any 'evidence' from this book.

At your Freenation site your masala messiah makes reference to a review by someone else which he annotated (and hence agreed with) for a Hermann Detering's book. Buried in the review is:

http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/...ic.php?p=24066

Ha! Ha! 'The fact' - I wasn't aware of this 'fact' - that 'the Greek of the New Testament is a patchwork of various passages from Buddhist scriptures, originally written in Sanskrit and Pâli." Wow. Why don't you start a thread over here on this little known fact? What are you doing here? Is your participation in this forum considered to be missionary work in your new New Age religion?

Robert Tulip

The Therapeuts, as attendants of the Gods, formed an esoteric network of initiated healers in the ancient world. Buddhism was heavily influential on the Therapeuts, who formed the community which gave birth to the Gospel story of Jesus Christ.

I have started a thread on Jesus Christ Avatar of the Age of Pisces to explore the science of a precessional cosmology.

Speaking of healing, with its roots in the story of Chiron, I have just done a painting - Rainbow Christ - depicting Christ and the Twelve Disciples as a cosmic system connecting the earth to heaven, with a detail in the lower level, My God Why Have You Forsaken Me, showing the face of Christ on the cross.

Robert Tulip

mountainman

There are Greek sources (Homer, Thucydides, Plato) which employ the term (or a related term) "therapeutae" before Ashoka arrived on the scene. While there may have been a Buddhist influence after Ashoka's "conversion" this influence post dates the earliest Greek usage of the term "therapeutae".


This OP relates to the original classical Greek "pagan" use of the term, from which the author of "VC" plainly and clearly borrowed. The author of "VC" could have called this group anything he wished. Hobbits, Essenes Mark II, Chrestians, Matthewites, Markites, Lukites, Johaninites, Paulinites, Mosesites, etc, etc, etc. But he didn't. The author of "VC" borrowed a well known term from the classical Greek history as the name for this group of people.

Robert Tulip

Working out who the Therapeuts were is central to the hypothesis that Christianity was cooked up in Alexandria. So yes, there is some point to it.

Now it appears that anyone who questions Jewish exclusivity among the Therapeuts will be disparaged by Stephan Huller as a "cult member". Apparently even research on eastern influence on Christianity has to be fought as some sort of upwelling mystic ooze.

I agree with Stephan that Philo was Jewish, and I have seen no good reason to doubt Philo wrote On the Contemplative Life. But Stephan's conclusion that the Therapeuts were exclusively Jewish has no basis, since Philo says they came from all over.

I suggest that Stephan and others interested in this topic should read Acharya's review of Buddhism's Relation to Christianity (especially before leaping into print with ignorant comments about it as Stephan has done here).

Another interesting commentary on the Buddhist relation to the Therapeuts is at http://christophertitmuss.org/blog/?p=80