Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mojuang · 05-04-2007, 03:55 AM

the young man who was wearing only a linen cloth and was last to run away at Gethesmane(only mark seems to have noticed him)who was he?what was he doing there?
Some crazy kenyan priest asserts that it was mark himself!
shed some light guys.

Malachi151 · 05-04-2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojuang

the young man who was wearing only a linen cloth and was last to run away at Gethesmane(only mark seems to have noticed him)who was he?what was he doing there?
Some crazy kenyan priest asserts that it was mark himself!
shed some light guys.

I've discussed this here before. I think that this passage is an Old Testament reference:

Quote:

Mark 14:
10 Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. 11 When they heard it, they were greatly pleased, and promised to give him money. So he began to look for an opportunity to betray him.
...
43 Immediately, while he was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, arrived; and with him there was a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders. 44 Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, 'The one I will kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.' 45 So when he came, he went up to him at once and said, 'Rabbi!' and kissed him. 46 Then they laid hands on him and arrested him. 47 But one of those who stood near drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 48 Then Jesus said to them, 'Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest me as though I were a bandit? 49 Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not arrest me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.' 50 All of them deserted him and fled.

51 A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52 but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.

Quote:

Amos 2:
4 This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Judah,
even for four, I will not turn back {my wrath}.
Because they have rejected the law of the LORD
and have not kept his decrees,
because they have been led astray by lies,
the lies their ancestors followed,

5 I will send fire upon Judah
that will consume the fortresses of Jerusalem."

6 This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Israel,
even for four, I will not turn back {my wrath}.
They sell the righteous for silver,
and the needy for a pair of sandals.

7 They trample on the heads of the poor
as upon the dust of the ground
and deny justice to the oppressed.
...
11 I also raised up prophets from among your sons
and Nazirites from among your young men.
Is this not true, people of Israel?"
declares the LORD.

12 "But you made the Nazirites drink wine
and commanded the prophets not to prophesy. (referenced in the passiion scene)

13 "Now then, I will crush you
as a cart crushes when loaded with grain.

14 The swift will not escape,
the strong will not muster their strength,
and the warrior will not save his life.

15 The archer will not stand his ground,
the fleet-footed soldier will not get away,
and the horseman will not save his life.

16 Even the bravest warriors
will flee naked on that day,"
declares the LORD.

My view of the Gospel of Mark is that it is a story written shortly after the destruction of Judea, which is an allegory about the destruction of Judea.

The references to the scriptures that the author of Mark makes often focus on denunciations of Judea and predictions of the destruction of Judea. This is an example of that.

The author of Mark used the Old Testament as the inspiration for his narrative throughout the story, as we see here.

Toto · 05-04-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojuang

...?
Some crazy kenyan priest asserts that it was mark himself!
....

This is one of the many guesses that have been made, probably to turn Mark's gospel into an eyewitness testimony.

This has been discussed before (many times). You might be interested in

Naked Young Man of 14:51-2 - thread started by Vorkosigan

another thread from 2004 naked youngman in mark gospel

Malachi151 · 05-04-2007, 12:31 PM

Thanks for bringing up the LXX. Looking at the LXX adds a lot of support to my view:

http://www.apostlesbible.com/books/a30amos/a30c02.htm

Quote:

1 Thus says the Lord; For three sins of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away from it, because they burnt the bones of the king of Idumea to lime.

2 But I will send forth a fire on Moab, and it shall devour the foundations of its cities, and Moab shall perish in weakness, with a shout, and with the sound of a trumpet.

3 And I will destroy the judge out of her, and slay all her princes with him, says the Lord.

4 Thus says the Lord; For three sins of the children of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away from him, because they have rejected the law of the Lord, and have not kept His ordinances, and their vain idols which they made, which their fathers followed, caused them to err.

5 And I will send a fire on Judah, and it shall devour the foundations of Jerusalem.

6 Thus says the Lord; for three sins of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away from him, because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for sandals,

7 in which to tread on the dust of the earth, and they have smitten upon the heads of the poor, and have perverted the way of the lowly; and a son and his father have gone into the same maid, that they might profane the name of their God.

8 And binding their clothes with cords, they have made them curtains near the altar, and they have drunk wine gained by extortion in the house of their God.

9 Nevertheless I cut off the Amorite from before them, whose height was as the height of a cedar, and he was strong as an oak; and I dried up his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.

10 And I brought you up out of the land of Egypt, and led you about in the desert forty years, that you should inherit the land of the Amorites.

11 And I took of your sons for prophets, and of your young men for consecration. Are not these things so, you sons of Israel? Says the Lord.

12 But you gave the consecrated ones wine to drink, and you commanded the prophets, saying, Prophesy not.

13 Therefore behold, I roll under you, as a wagon full of straw is rolled.

14 And flight shall perish from the runner, and the strong shall not hold fast his strength, and the warrior shall not save his life;

15 and the archer shall not withstand, and he that is swift of foot shall in by no means escape; and the horseman shall not save his life.

16 And the strong shall find no confidence in power: the naked shall flee away in that day, says the Lord.

He isn't called a warrior in the LXX. I'm now even more certain that this is the basis for Mark 14, and this is the naked man.

Gamera · 05-04-2007, 03:02 PM

This a mysterious incident, but perhaps no so mysterious in the context of the preceding chapter. In Mark 13, Jesus tells his disciples, in response to their questions about the end of the age (apparently -- the question is ambiguous):

Quote:

14 "But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 15 let him who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything away; 16 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 17 And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19

It can't be a coincidence that Jesus's prophetic advice includes not returning to get an article of clothing left behind. This is exactly what the certain man does. If the two passages are connected, the narrative is as follows:

Option #1:
One of the disciples (traditionally Mark) is following the soldiers at a distance to see what's happening. He's nabbed, but escapes, but only by leaving his linen garment behind.

The meaning of this narrative episode would then be: the apostle -- as was typical of the apostles -- misinterpreted Jesus's saying and thought this was the end of the world, when in fact it wasn't. So he left his garment behind. (This seems unlikely only because he didn't seem to have a choice -- it was flee naked or get arrested -- unlike the guy working in the field in Mark 13).

Option #2:
An alternative is that a third party, aware of the disturbance but uninvolved, is roused from sleep and wanted to find out what was going on, followed, was deemed suspicious by the authorities and nabbed, but ran away (sans nightclothes)

The meaning of the episode might then be an objective correlative for Jesus' just-given depiction of the end of the age. It is portrayed in miniature with the persecution of Jesus,with the innocent bystanding playing the role of the fieldworker who flees without his mantle.

I prefer this interpretation. It parallels poor Simon's carrying of the cross as an innocent bystander caught up in something way larger than he can possibly understand.

Lacan, with his theory of repetition automatism, might do wonders with this episode.

TomboyMom · 05-04-2007, 03:26 PM

I don't know but it's a great thread title. Should soon offer us some real fun with sequential thread titles.

Chili · 05-05-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojuang

the young man who was wearing only a linen cloth and was last to run away at Gethesmane(only mark seems to have noticed him)who was he?what was he doing there?
Some crazy kenyan priest asserts that it was mark himself!
shed some light guys.

That was the naked man without 'the lion-cloth'. Notice that this man left the lion-cloth behind that represents the [Jewish] ego here called Jesus. If you go to Gen.2:25 you will see that man was naked and felt no shame until he consumed from the tree of knowledge that created for him a second identity and therefore felt shame and saw the need for a lion cloth. These two divide here and Jesus-the-Jew was captured to be crucified while Jesus the man (also the known as the messiah or Christ) was set free.

Solo · 05-06-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

That was the naked man without 'the lion-cloth'. Notice that this man left the lion-cloth behind that represents the [Jewish] ego here called Jesus. If you go to Gen.2:25 you will see that man was naked and felt no shame until he consumed from the tree of knowledge that created for him a second identity and therefore felt shame and saw the need for a lion cloth. These two divide here and Jesus-the-Jew was captured to be crucified while Jesus the man (also the known as the messiah or Christ) was set free.

I have thought for awhile that the young man is a spiritual "newbie" of Jesus, i.e. one who is through the spirit cycle for the first time. When Christ is "arrested", the "young man" (inexperienced in the ways of the spirit) panics and flees "the trouble" in shame. My interpretation assumes that the neaniskos of 14:51-2 and 16:5 is one and the same(the only two verses in which the word occurs in Mark). My own interpretation rests on reading of the "loosely cast linen cloth" (peribeblhmenos sindona) "around his naked body" (epi gumnou), as allusion to "unpreparedness" for the night of the Passover, when loins are to be girded (Ex 12:11). Given the proximity in the Mark's chapter of the failed "watch" by the inner circle, I believe the young man's flight completes the saying of the early communities about the 'loins girded and lamps burning' for the hour of the Lord. (e.g. Luke 12:35, Didache 16:1).

Jiri

Gawen · 05-06-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

That was the naked man without 'the lion-cloth'. Notice that this man left the lion-cloth behind that represents the [Jewish] ego here called Jesus. If you go to Gen.2:25 you will see that man was naked and felt no shame until he consumed from the tree of knowledge that created for him a second identity and therefore felt shame and saw the need for a lion cloth. These two divide here and Jesus-the-Jew was captured to be crucified while Jesus the man (also the known as the messiah or Christ) was set free.

Lion cloth...the guy had a real tiger in his pants...

Chili · 05-06-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gawen

Lion cloth...the guy had a real tiger in his pants...

Oops, loin cloth would be better. Good catch.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-04-2007, 03:55 AM	#1
mojuang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: mombasa,Kenya Posts: 52	jesus and the naked man in the dark..... the young man who was wearing only a linen cloth and was last to run away at Gethesmane(only mark seems to have noticed him)who was he?what was he doing there? Some crazy kenyan priest asserts that it was mark himself! shed some light guys.

05-04-2007, 03:26 PM	#6
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	I don't know but it's a great thread title. Should soon offer us some real fun with sequential thread titles.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.