Phlox Pyros

A more careful reading of my posts will reveal, rather, that it seems that those who believe everything ceases at death (ie. memory, love, etc.) would believe they are leading meaningless lives. After all, anything "positive" they did for anyone in the world will simply fade away into the black void...empty nothingness. This, as I have said, is hell to me.

Funny (to me at least), partially related, anecdote ... A catholic friend of mine and I were, one time, watching a show on astronomy (may have been by Carl Sagan, I do not remember). It was mentioned that the sun may eventually grow to envelop the earth and then, possibly, explode as a super nova (right or wrong, who really knows). Anyways, I turned to my friend and off-handedly commented: "Man! Think about it... One day, long after we are dead and our bodies are in the ground, the sun will eat us up and then explode us into the universe in little bitty atomic particles! Wow!" He got very visibly upset and said I shouldn't say such things.

Anyway, I am not the first to recognize the meaninglessness of life without the existence of God/an afterlife/something... Of course, there is the wise King Solomon of the Bible who says something to the effect of "Life is meaningless, meaningless, meaningless, utterly meaningless" and "Eat, Drink, and Be Merry, for tomorrow we die!"

Or then, there are many literary works. There was a character in one of Dostoyevsky's books who decides to commit suicide because he has seen that life has no meaning. I think I am realizing that it is hard for people in America, Europe, and other affluent nations to see this point very well because we are the world's rich people even when we are poor. We do not experience the genocides and famines that many African countries face (as well as others I am less aware of). Of course, I do not really know how they believe either (and that is sad), but I wonder if many of them, living in some of the most oppresive conditions in the world, would think that life was worth living if there was no God/no afterlife/no hope beyond a miserable existence of starvation, rape, incest, brutality, and violent death?

Chris Weimer

Very interesting but I don't think that Kirilov's dilemma is best discussed in this forum.

Phlox Pyros

Nailed it! Couldn't think of the name. It fits the discussion, such as it has diverged, but I'll let this be my last post.

Chris Weimer

I was talking about the diversion in general and not your post. (I saw that's where it was heading, about the meaning of life etc...)

I posted about Kirilov's dilemma a while back in the Philosophy forum. It would be interesting to talk about it again.

RUmike

I dare you to find even one person on this board who a) believes everything ceases at death and b) he or she leads a meaningless life.

I'll pay you $20 for each such person you find.

Chris Weimer

That's irrelevant to his point.

RUmike

How? Pyros wrote:

"...it seems that those who believe everything ceases at death (ie. memory, love, etc.) would believe they are leading meaningless lives."

I asked him to provide me with one example.

Joan of Bark

It matters NOW, while I'm still alive. And the positive changes I make will affect people NOW, while they're still alive. And some of those changes will last on Earth after I am dead; I just won't be around anymore to take pride in them. So what? You seem to be taking the position that if something doesn't last for eternity, it's not worth doing. If that's the case, you may as well commit suicide now and stop wasting time here.

This, to ME, is not hell. Stop telling me how I should feel about my life.

Chris Weimer

But who believes that everything ceases at death. Certainly others' memories will survive after one dies. Who really believes that everything will end when they die?

I used to, btw, and I thought that life was meaningless. Actually, I still believe in a way believe that. One day, the entire universe will end, along with everything we ever have achieved. Ever. Thus, life is inherently meaningless. You owe him 20$.

RUmike

I guess I wasn't specific enough. Obviously I didn't mean everything ceases to exist, just the person/mind/etc of the one who died.

And sure, most here probably think that life is inherently meaningless. But I meant a person who believes his own life itself is meaningless, either to himself or others. Do you find your own life meaningless, Chris? I would think not, so no $20 for you