mountainman

I have never completely understood if it was the intention
of the authors of the gospels to present Jesus Christ, son
of the Living God (within the Hubble limit) as an ascetic
who:

1) drank wine but did not become intoxicated, and

2) ate meat like there was no tomorrow for vegetarianism.

Normally ascetics did not drink wine, and regarded the
eating of meat as an injustice to the spirit of life.


Has anyone got the answers to these questions?


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Ray Moscow

I've got no definite answers, but I suppose it comes down to either 1) there was a real HJ who just had some inconsistent habits or 2) the Jesus of the gospels was a composite of different figures with different characteristics.

I tend toward the latter.

andrewcriddle

I can't see much evidence that the gospel writers wished to present Jesus as an ascetic at all.

Andrew Criddle

Toto

It is John the Baptist who was the ascetic. Jesus was a lush.

Luke 5:27-39 has Jesus eating and drinking with the tax collectors and sinners.

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35 But wisdom is proved right by all her children."

The Buddha is supposed to have fasted until he reached enlightenment, and realized that he had to eat. That's why you see statues of the Buddha as a fat, jolly man with a big belly.

What was the question? You might wonder why some Christian monks are ascetics, given that their master was clearly not.

Jeffrey Gibson

So also Matt. 11:18-19.

Actually, Gautama gave up/rejected fasting as a means of release before he had his Assattha/Pipala experience (Majahima Nikaya 1.256). And the figure represented as the "Laughing Buddha" -- who is the embodiment of contentment and prosperity -- was never thought by Buddhists to be Gautama. Rather, he's an entirely different figure -- Pu-Tai (Budai) -- based on a person from a culture and a time period quite different from Guatama's, altogether. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai.

His depiction as jolly and as having a large belly has nothing to do with Gautama's realization that the extreme asceticism he been engaged in after he left his house and family would not bring him release from samsara and that one needs to eat.

Jeffrey

Ray Moscow

Yes, but Jesus also fasted during his desert "initiation". That's the main ascetic element in his story.

mountainman

That's what I thought.
The standard 40 days like Buddha.

The wisdom was in the instance of christianity
proved right by the sharp edge of Constantine's
sword ----------- make no mistake about that.
It was inspired wisdom direct from the Boss.

The Chrysargyron needed good reliable tax collectors.
And the army marched better to the One Song.

But there were the parodists ...


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Jedi Mind Trick

I think that the gospels are inconsistent in this regard as well as in other points because it is an overwrite of much more authentic oral and/or written accounts of the ascetic Yeshua ben Yoseph, a Nazorean Essene, a vegetarian and abstaining from strong drink.

Jedi Mind Trick

Are you sure about this? The Laughing Buddha is not Siddhartha Gautama. See this wiki.
Gautama Buddha preached the "Middle Way" between deprivation and licentiousness.

Jeffrey Gibson

And where do we find these "authentic" accounts of the ascetic Jesus?

Jeffrey