Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dzim77 · 10-16-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

Dzim77, Thank you. Having taken it many times myself, I'm fairly comfortable with the Christian explanation and reasoning behind communion, but you've help remind me of the connection between nourishment of the body vs. nourishment for the soul.

My concern was if the writers/editors of the NT Gospels had twisted his words to mean something that he didn't intend. (Note: I'm not convinced that there was such a person as Jesus. Like I said... one step at a time.)

What I learned from Toto and Anat was that Charity was not a foreign concept to the people of Jesus's time, and the region was agriculturally rich (I'll blame Hollywood & sunday school for my misconceptions on these.).

I see.

Quote:

What about wine? Was this a common peasant drink of the time, or only available to the wealthy? What was it's significance to the Jews of Jesus' day?

From what I've read, wine was the common drink. Because of health issues with purity of drinking water, good water was not widely or readily available, so use of wine was common. Not all wine had the higher level of alcohol content that a typical wine today does... though I'm sure some of it did.

In the OT, wine was usually associated with joy and celebration.
Occaisionally, though, the symbol of the 'cup of God's wrath' is used, maybe indirectly related to wine.

Julian · 10-17-2006, 07:46 AM

The eucharist has been twisted over the years into the ritual we see in the gospels and what we know today. Here is an earlier form of the eucharist from the Didache, probably pre-dating the gospels:

9:1 But as touching the eucharistic thanksgiving give ye thanks thus.
9:2 First, as regards the cup:
9:3 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the holy vine of Thy son David, which Thou madest known unto us through Thy Son Jesus;
9:4 Thine is the glory for ever and ever.
9:5 Then as regards the broken bread:
9:6 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the life and knowledge which Thou didst make known unto us through Thy Son Jesus;
9:7 Thine is the glory for ever and ever.
9:8 As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains and being gathered together became one, so may Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom;
9:9 for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
9:10 But let no one eat or drink of this eucharistic thanksgiving, but they that have been baptized into the name of the Lord;
9:11 for concerning this also the Lord hath said:
9:12 {Give not that which is holy to the dogs.}

Lightfoot's translation. More here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html

Julian

robto · 10-17-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

So if bread=food, then when Jesus supposedly broke it to share with his disciples he was saying "If you have food and someone else doesn't, share it with them so they don't go hungry."

This is, more or less, the conclusion that John Dominic Crossan argues for in (one of my all-time favorite books about Jesus) The Birth of Christianity.
Crossan is one of the best. He uses archaeology and sociology to understand the culture. Then he applies careful textual analysis to understand the meaning of Biblical passages. Highly recommended.

Quote:

Where did the crap about the bread being his flesh to remind of his sacrifice for our sins come from?

I've been trying to figure this one out for years. After reading some 150 books, I'm still not sure. Possibly borrowed from the Dionysus cult?

Quote:

Again, sorry for the novice questions. My first task is to learn how to ask good questions, and I'm not sure I'm doing a very good job.

Actually, they're really good questions!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-17-2006, 07:46 AM	#12
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	The eucharist has been twisted over the years into the ritual we see in the gospels and what we know today. Here is an earlier form of the eucharist from the Didache, probably pre-dating the gospels: 9:1 But as touching the eucharistic thanksgiving give ye thanks thus. 9:2 First, as regards the cup: 9:3 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the holy vine of Thy son David, which Thou madest known unto us through Thy Son Jesus; 9:4 Thine is the glory for ever and ever. 9:5 Then as regards the broken bread: 9:6 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the life and knowledge which Thou didst make known unto us through Thy Son Jesus; 9:7 Thine is the glory for ever and ever. 9:8 As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains and being gathered together became one, so may Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; 9:9 for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever and ever. 9:10 But let no one eat or drink of this eucharistic thanksgiving, but they that have been baptized into the name of the Lord; 9:11 for concerning this also the Lord hath said: 9:12 {Give not that which is holy to the dogs.} Lightfoot's translation. More here: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html Julian

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.