Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 04-29-2009, 12:30 PM

If this thread is just more Jewish conspiracy stuff, we can ship it to GRD to join its friends.

bacht · 04-29-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

I find it strange that you would probably believe a Jewish governor named Joseph was made administrator of Egypt but not Jewish politicians holding office in the Roman Empire.

I don't think it's a good analogy. Joseph, if a real person, lived sometime before 1000 bce, and no Egyptian records have emerged to confirm his activities.

The Roman Senate in the 1st C is well-attested afaik. Also, the major revolt quelled by Vespasian and Titus would not have disposed the citizens to welcome Jews into their legislative bodies I suspect.

steve_bnk · 04-29-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

I find it strange that you would probably believe a Jewish governor named Joseph was made administrator of Egypt but not Jewish politicians holding office in the Roman Empire.

I don't think it's a good analogy. Joseph, if a real person, lived sometime before 1000 bce, and no Egyptian records have emerged to confirm his activities.

The Roman Senate in the 1st C is well-attested afaik. Also, the major revolt quelled by Vespasian and Titus would not have disposed the citizens to welcome Jews into their legislative bodies I suspect.

The nationalistic Jews in Judea were separate from the diaspora Jews. I read there was a period in which they had dispensationn from the Roman state religions.

steve_bnk · 04-29-2009, 03:28 PM

http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diaspora/rome.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../diaspora.html
keyword 'jewish diaspora'

Found a good reference site on Judaism.

http://virtualreligion.net/vri/judaic2.html

sugarhitman · 04-30-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

People post all sorts of nonsense on the internet. If you are going to challenge storytime, you should at least link to his post and let him know.

I gather that you object to this statement in this post in that thread that got moved back to GRD:

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

And why would Romans persecute Jewish members of their own Roman interests? Many Jewish men held office equal to that of Romans (the senators). Herod is another example. Why would Romans then desecrate the Jewish temple that their friend and alli, Herod had finished building?

At this point, I'm not going to bother trying to figure out what the point of this was. The word "senator" is an error, but Herod was a Roman ally, and there were Jewish men who were officials.

Where is this post? See posts 142, 151, and 158 in "Revelations, Redemption of Israel", he said that Paul was protected by Jewish Roman Senators who protected "Judasim"( he has these leaders in Rome...not Judea.) And that the Gentiles were "forced" into accepting the NT by "politically motivated Jews".....sounds like a Zionist plot to me.

Duke Leto · 04-30-2009, 04:58 AM

There were, emphatically, no Jewish senators during Paul's lifetime. Herod and his descendants were client Kings. The closest thing one comes to this, was Philo's nephew Tiberius Julius Alexander, who was a member of the equestrian order and governor of Judea under Claudius. He is believed to have been an apostate.

sugarhitman · 04-30-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

So was christianity...but that didnt stop Rome from killing them. (the christians)

Storytime, in defending her/his Jewish conspiracy myth, has gone so far as to say that there were powerful Jewish Roman Senators in the Roman government who along with Paul put on some sort of theatric Religious dispute....get this...to protect Judasim! Unbelievable!

No, it was you who connected Paul with powerful Jewish Roman senators in your own twisted version of my conspiracy theory/myth. Try staying within my conspiracy theory/myth if you're going to criticize it.

I find it strange that you would probably believe a Jewish governor named Joseph was made administrator of Egypt but not Jewish politicians holding office in the Roman Empire. Sure you're up to tackling my speculations?

How blatently false.

"Maybe it was. Im thinking of powerful Jewish leaders at Rome....."---Storytime post #142 "Revelation, Redemption of Israel"

Powerful Jewish leaders at Rome who along with Paul, "forced" the "gulliable gentile peoples into this story" "to protect Judasim" which is why Judasim survives today.

This is not only false, but insensitive. This is something too close to the Jewish conspiracy myths, and similer to the Holocaust deniers (By ignoring the fact that Rome was visciously anti-semitic, hated Judasim, and murdered and crucified countless Jews....because of Judasim).

Roger Pearse · 04-30-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

How blatently false.

"Maybe it was. Im thinking of powerful Jewish leaders at Rome....."---Storytime post #142 "Revelation, Redemption of Israel"

Powerful Jewish leaders at Rome who along with Paul, "forced" the "gulliable gentile peoples into this story" "to protect Judasim" which is why Judasim survives today.

This is not only false, but insensitive. This is something too close to the Jewish conspiracy myths, and similer to the Holocaust deniers (By ignoring the fact that Rome was visciously anti-semitic, hated Judasim, and murdered and crucified countless Jews....because of Judasim).

Not sure why the Jewish race (or any other) should be privileged from criticism, protected from hurt feelings and "insensitive" comments? (Unless, of course, it is *our* race being criticised!) What matters is the facts.

The attitude of Rome to the Jews was ambivalent and/or indifferent.

storytime · 05-01-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Storytime (a befitting name in light of this), says that there were Jews in the Roman Senate during the days of Paul's case before the Roman government. Who were they? (if they ever existed).

Yes, I thought "Storytime" a befitting name to for discussing the bible myths.

Why do you think there were no Jews in governing positions(Senate or other positions) in Rome or throughout cities of the empire? Can you prove there were none?

Toto · 05-01-2009, 12:27 PM

storytime - please do not engage in this silly time wasting game of "prove me wrong." Do some basic research for yourself. The Roman Senate

Quote:

Members of the Senate were chosen from among eligible equites, and selected by Consuls, Tribunes and later by Censors. Alternatively, they were selected from those who were elected to previous magistracies, such as quaestors. If not previously a member of the Senate, a magistrate ending his year of service in one these offices would then be eligible for an immediate seat. Not all Senators held equal status, however. Those selected by censors or other magistrates to fill seats from among the equites had no right to vote or to speak on the Senate floor. Senators earned the proper dignity and nobility to vote and speak on the floor by virtue of holding various offices such as Consul, Praetor, Aedile, etc., Such dignified offices as the Pontifex Maximus, head of the Roman Religion, or the Flamen Dialis, chief priest of Jupiter, were categorized as non voting and non speaking with the exception of various religious rituals.

The Jews had a status of a legal religion (as opposed to a mere superstition.) But Jews were not part of the Roman class system.

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04-29-2009, 12:30 PM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	If this thread is just more Jewish conspiracy stuff, we can ship it to GRD to join its friends.

04-29-2009, 03:28 PM	#14
steve_bnk Contributor Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,602	http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diaspora/rome.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../diaspora.html keyword 'jewish diaspora' Found a good reference site on Judaism. http://virtualreligion.net/vri/judaic2.html

04-30-2009, 04:58 AM	#16
Duke Leto Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,387	There were, emphatically, no Jewish senators during Paul's lifetime. Herod and his descendants were client Kings. The closest thing one comes to this, was Philo's nephew Tiberius Julius Alexander, who was a member of the equestrian order and governor of Judea under Claudius. He is believed to have been an apostate.

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