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Welcome, Peter Kirby.
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View Poll Results: Jesus: mythical, historical, or insufficient data?
Voted in '04 for MJ, and still think Jesus was a myth. 8 7.69%
Voted in '04 for HJ, and still think Jesus was entirely/mostly historical 2 1.92%
Voted "insufficient data" in '04 and still think we don't have enough info to decide 5 4.81%
Voted in '04, but have changed since to MJer 3 2.88%
Voted in '04, but have changed since to HJer 2 1.92%
Voted in '04, but have since decided that the data is insufficient 2 1.92%
Did NOT vote in '04, but IMO Jesus was a myth. 38 36.54%
Did NOT vote in '04, but IMO Jesus was in some degree historical. 28 26.92%
Did NOT vote in '04, but IMO we have insufficient data to decide the question. 15 14.42%
Other- Biblical literalist, magical brownies, ??? 1 0.96%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:57 PM   #1
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Default Another poll on HJ, MJ, or ???

In late 2004, I posted the poll Jesus: entirely mythical, or a historical person? The final numbers on that poll were:
MJers: 98 (29.34%)
HJers: 104 (31.14%)
Insufficient data/no opinion: 132 (39.52%)

Since that time, there has been a vast amount of discussion concerning this topic, and I'd like to see if I can detect any changes in the opinions here.

If you voted in my '04 poll, please select from options 1-6, or (possibly) option 10. (If you select 10, please post what your original vote was, and why you feel the other options are not for you.)

If you did NOT vote in the '04 poll, please select the choice closest to your opinion from 7-10.

Interesting personal factoid: although I am not a regular in BC&H, and certainly don't consider myself more than an interested and well-educated amateur in the subjects covered in this forum, that '04 poll is the longest single thread I've ever started on II!
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:11 AM   #2
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I voted in '04 as an MJer, and voted the same just now.

However, I have the caveat that (like then) I think that there almost certainly was a person (or persons) who went around and preached - after all, someone must have originated the 'Q' sayings - but that the Gospel biographies are likely to represent almost pure Midrash and do not reflect anything of the life of this person, so the Christ figure in them (and certainly the Christ figure that Paul talks about) can be considered to be a purely Mythical construct.

Also, whilst I think this the most likely scenario - I am by no means dogmatic as an MJer, and I think it is possible that an Historical Jesus existed.
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobar
Interesting personal factoid: although I am not a regular in BC&H, and certainly don't consider myself more than an interested and well-educated amateur in the subjects covered in this forum, that '04 poll is the longest single thread I've ever started on II!
The only way that you'll get me to vote is if you
allow as the "??" the characters "FJ" which since
your earlier poll I have argued as representing the
FICTIONAL JESUS.

F=FICTIONAL as in the considered words of emperor
Julian "the fabrication of Galilaeans is a fiction of men
composed by wickedness"
.



Pete Brown
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Old 07-27-2006, 05:30 AM   #4
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I understand your distinction, but myths are fictions, no?

Feel free to vote for options 7 or 10, as pleases you. Or not; this is, after all, entirely voluntary!
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Old 07-27-2006, 07:03 AM   #5
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Myth.

Any theory about Jesus has a dilemna or two to resolve.

HJ has a mountain of dilemnas, and many are unresolveable - except through apologetic calisthenics.

MJ theory makes the most sense to me. And the problems (such as kata sarka or brother of the lord) have reasonable explanations.
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:06 AM   #6
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So far, with 23 votes, the MJ'ers have a sizeable lead.

I agree. I'm no scholar in any sense, but that explanation quite simply makes the most sense to me.
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:33 AM   #7
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And in another astounding development, 15 anonymous web users have voted that the United States does not exist! Someone alert the U.N.!
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:41 AM   #8
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Jobar, why the polls?
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:14 PM   #9
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I think a historical Jesus existed, but, of course, details regarding his life has been greatly aggrandized. One must remember that the Gospels were written to gain converts, not to accurately depict the life of Jesus. I most certainly do not believe in Jesus' alledged divinity, but I regard the Jesus myth to have as much respectability as the Duesburg hypothesis, or Michael Cremo's Forbidden Archeology (or via: amazon.co.uk).
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Old 07-27-2006, 02:33 PM   #10
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This is my first time voting on this. I voted HJ, but if the answer mattered for any practical purpose, I'd say "not enough information", just to be safe.

Although they're far from conclusive, I've found the embarassing details in the Gospels (eg, unfulfilled prophecy and people from Jesus's hometown thinking he was full of it) to be the most compelling arguments in favor of an HJ. It's hard to picture early Xtians believing in an MJ, and then dreaming up an earthly life for him that made him look bad. It's also hard to imagine someone including these embarassments while composing a FJ.
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