BH

http://members.tripod.com/jbrooks2/F...tianity_4.html

Did Papias and Justin Martyr deny that Jesus was crucified and/or that he lived to be an old man?

Ben C Smith

No. Not in any of our extant texts or fragments. This statement is probably based on the fact that Irenaeus attributes a late-in-life death to the elders, a title for which Papias would probably qualify, but not uniquely.

I read just a few lines of that link, BTW, and discovered several amazingly egregious errors, including:

Bishop Eusebius says that Bishop Papias states that "those who were raised to life by Christ lived on until the age of Trajan," -- Roman Emperor from 98-117 A.D.

No, that would be Quadratus, not Papias.

Father Papias falls into what would by the Orthodox be regarded as "some" error, in disbelieving and denying the early crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ -- evidently not then a belief; for he assures us, on the authority of what "the disciples of the Lord used to say in the old days," that Jesus Christ lived to be an old man; and so evidently died in peace in the bosom of his family, as we shall see explicitly confessed by Bishop Irenaeus.

Irenaeus says that Jesus died in peace in the bosom of his family???

As examples, Eusebius cites "a wild and extraordinary legend about Judas Iscariot attributed to Papias," wherein he says of Judas; "his body having swollen to such extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out."

This is indeed a quotation of Papias, but one not preserved by Eusebius; this one comes from Apollinarius.

Ben.

andrewcriddle

Or possibly Papias according to Philip of Side
Papias
Andrew Criddle

Ben C Smith

Certainly, but the author was quoting Eusebius, not P. Sidetes.

(I also regard it as most probable that Philip has simply mistaken Papias for Quadratus; see the arguments by Gundry in his commentary on Mark. Nevertheless, even if Philip is correct, it is incorrect to say that it was Eusebius who attributed this sentiment to Papias.)

Ben.

Roger Pearse

Isn't it curious that the limited remains of Philip Sidetes have never been translated into English?

(Philip was John Chrysostom's syncellus if I recall correctly).

All the best,

Roger Pearse