spamandham

I have seen many claims that the word 'hell', and indeed even the concepts the word implies, are not actually found anywhere in the Bible. Supposedly, in each case, this word is a (intentional) mistranslation of:

- the grave
- Gehenna (an actual location where the bodies of criminals were disposed like garbage)
- the Greek underworld of Hades or Tartarus
- the metaphorical sense of the lake of fire as annihilation

Is it true that the modern concept of hell is a much later invention? If so, what evidence supports such a position?

Solitary Man

Matthew undoubtedly uses the terms to refer to a place post-judgment very similar to our concept of hell. This is merely Matthew's version, though.

It should also be guarded against etymological fallacy. While sheol literally means the grave, "hell" literally means "a concealed place" (conceal and hell, actually, both ultimately come from the same PIE root).

spamandham

a) is this a reference to '2nd death'? I don't see that as anything like the modern concept of hell which seems to be a place of eternal conscious torment

b) do you know what layer of Matthew is this in? the pastoral layer, or something earlier? :huh:

Steven Carr

Explain to me more about the Greek underworld of Tartarus, and why 2 Peter chose that word (without, of course, ever borrowing any concepts from pagan religions :-)

spamandham

I won't claim to know what it meant in the 1st/2nd century. The modern understanding, as I see it, is that it was the deepest pit of Hades. No doubt unpleasant.

My GUESS as to why pagan symbolism was chosen, is because the writer was influenced by contemporary paganism.

ApostateAbe

Go to searchgodsword.org. It will let you do key word searches on any part of the Bible, like the gospels. Do searches for "Hades," "hell," "fire," and other keywords that Jesus associates with the judgment of sinners. You can view the original Greek words. The three Greek words typically translated as "hell" are "Hades," "Gehenna," and "Tartarus." Hades and Gehenna are used most commonly. Hades refers to the Greek afterlife, and Gehenna is the fiery pit outside of Jerusalem, but both words are used in the gospels to describe the same thing: a painful fiery eternal dark punishment for the souls of the wicked. The synoptic gospels are the earliest Christian texts that mention hell (dated around 70 AD). Hell was likely an invention of Jesus, adapted from the Greek and Roman mythologies of punishment in the age to come and the fiery pit outside Jerusalem. Other explanations--like the Greek Christians invented it--are possible. Just not as probable, in my opinion.

angelo

Hell was invented to scare the shit out of people,to make them join the numerous number of churches sprouting up everywhere in the Roman Empire.
Words were placed in Jesus mouth to authenticate the myth in the gospels, as each gospel was written for various groups of different churches and was used to keep power in the hands of these various leaders of each church.

ApostateAbe

Jesus preaching hell is a thing common to all four gospels, which would mean that it would be a very early doctrine of the Christian religion. Some quotes of Jesus are actually misquotes of Jesus, but some quotes are likely to resemble the original statements. I see no good reason why hell was not an invention of Jesus. The Greeks had no familiarity with Gehenna. Hell serves as a way to gain adherents. Christianity probably would never have gained momentum outside of Israel had it not been for the ultimate threat of hell and the ultimate reward promise of heaven.

Civil1z@tion

I haven't heard any scholar say the Bible doesn't have hell in it. However, I have heard the interpretation that hell involves "torment" but not "torture." By that they mean that hell is distance from God which is supposedly a less-than-ideal situation, but not the fire and brimstone place of being tortured by Satan that preachers call it. I'm not sure how accurate this interpretation is as I have not read enough of the bible. But what I have read is fairly definitive that Jesus thought a hell existed, only its form is in question.

spamandham

But do they? It isn't clear to me that they are referring to the same thing at all. It isn't clear to me that the references to Gehenna imply torment of a soul after death. To me, they imply disposal of a body in the refuse heap of Gehenna.

The references to Hades don't imply eternal misery either. They seem to simply refer to the contemporary concept of Hades, which although perhaps unpleasant, is nothing like the modern concept of hell.