Freethought & Rationalism Archive

outhouse · 02-19-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

I wonder just what the unbiased scientific criteria or laws actually are for determining what is considered a "myth" and what is not.

a story with zero historicity deemed supernatural would qualify as a myth.

In this case you may be confusing myth and legend

a legend doesnt have to be accurate history, but it can be.

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We consider the wars of ancients gods to be a myth

because they are mythincal

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and yet some consider the idea that millions of people died in gas chambers also to be a myth

only the uneducated

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Is myth just a catch word for anything people subjectively don't want to believe to be true, whenever it happened in history?

No

not at all

Johnny Skeptic · 02-19-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I wonder just what the unbiased scientific criteria or laws actually are for determining what is considered a "myth" and what is not.

Are you including the global flood theory, creationism, and the young earth theory?

Toto · 02-19-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I wonder just what the unbiased scientific criteria or laws actually are for determining what is considered a "myth" and what is not. We consider the wars of ancients gods to be a myth, and yet some consider the idea that millions of people died in gas chambers also to be a myth.
Is myth just a catch word for anything people subjectively don't want to believe to be true, whenever it happened in history?

There have been books written on this question, of how we know what we think we know from history.

You will find some discussion of the standards in Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It? (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Michael Shermer (of the Skeptics Society) and Alex Grobman.

stephan huller · 02-19-2012, 12:43 PM

I think it's that I hate certainty I hate it when people say this isn't true it's all a lie it's all a myth. there maybe lies and myths incorporated in the narrative but it used to be that we criticized the faithful 4 being certain in the midst of gray areas. I think the question of whether not exodus is a mythical development of a historical event
is 1 such grey area . the question of whether the gospel is a mythical narrative developed loosely from a historical event is another.

Chili · 02-19-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I wonder just what the unbiased scientific criteria or laws actually are for determining what is considered a "myth" and what is not.

Are you including the global flood theory, creationism, and the young earth theory?

They are very easy to deal with Johnny as the flood story has been replaced by the Advent wreath, the Intelligent Design is tucked inside the species, and the mythology still is as old as it is, but no longer a wasteland.

outhouse · 02-19-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I think it's that I hate certainty I hate it when people say this isn't true it's all a lie it's all a myth. there maybe lies and myths incorporated in the narrative but it used to be that we criticized the faithful 4 being certain in the midst of gray areas. I think the question of whether not exodus is a mythical development of a historical event
is 1 such grey area . the question of whether the gospel is a mythical narrative developed loosely from a historical event is another.

there is NO gray area here

its black and white that it has no historicity as written.

there may or may not be a historical core. I think there is no reason why there would not be a core, BUT this core has nothing to do with the the exodus legend as written.

We know semetic people slowly migrated from Egypt to Israel after 1200 BC but they were a minority compared to Canaanites and Mesopotamian's

stephan huller · 02-19-2012, 12:57 PM

this is a stupid argument john outhouse. only a fool would say there are no gray areas whe. approaching ancient historical records. have you seen what the proposed ancient site of the city of troy looks like? you atheists are too busy trying to take over the world to pay attention to subtleties and gray areas

judge · 02-19-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

So let me get this straight. All these haters of the Jews couldn't figure out what you folks hit up on - you all with a tenth of their learning and education. Americans no less. Somehow 'figure out' what Manetho, Apion, Poseidonus, Celsus and Julian couldn't come up.

'It's all a lie.'

Only in America.

Stephan are you aware that people who are not American use the internets too?

stephan huller · 02-19-2012, 01:04 PM

but rarely with the same vulgarity

Chili · 02-19-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I wonder just what the unbiased scientific criteria or laws actually are for determining what is considered a "myth" and what is not. We consider the wars of ancients gods to be a myth, and yet some consider the idea that millions of people died in gas chambers also to be a myth.
Is myth just a catch word for anything people subjectively don't want to believe to be true, whenever it happened in history?

There have been books written on this question, of how we know what we think we know from history.

You will find some discussion of the standards in Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It? (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Michael Shermer (of the Skeptics Society) and Alex Grobman.

I think it is not a matter of truth in history but in defining truth from fiction wherein truth is always current and is without history, but history is made by reformers based on fiction as isolated snippets of this truth that they perceive as reality and will defend against all odds.

Truth just 'is' and is infinite in the minds of those who are omniscient to serve as guidance for the Sate that advocates in Antho 101' that the survival and prosperity of the tribe or nation is an expression of the wisdom contained in its mythology.

The Holocaust was just evidence of one such reformer who should have been brought to trial to Inquire what he was motivated by.

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02-19-2012, 12:43 PM	#134
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I think it's that I hate certainty I hate it when people say this isn't true it's all a lie it's all a myth. there maybe lies and myths incorporated in the narrative but it used to be that we criticized the faithful 4 being certain in the midst of gray areas. I think the question of whether not exodus is a mythical development of a historical event is 1 such grey area . the question of whether the gospel is a mythical narrative developed loosely from a historical event is another.

02-19-2012, 12:57 PM	#137
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	this is a stupid argument john outhouse. only a fool would say there are no gray areas whe. approaching ancient historical records. have you seen what the proposed ancient site of the city of troy looks like? you atheists are too busy trying to take over the world to pay attention to subtleties and gray areas

02-19-2012, 01:04 PM	#139
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	but rarely with the same vulgarity

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