fanucon

10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."

13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=4&version=31

when he says Whoever who is he referring to?

John Kesler

The inconsistency that you point out--that Cain was fearful of being killed even though he and his parents were the only humans in existence--hints that either this pericope has be transposed into its current setting, or that some verses, including v:14, have been inserted into the text. To reconcile Cain's concern with the story's current context, one has to assume that Cain was anticipating that as-yet-unborn people would want to kill him.

Fortuna

John,

No, I have to disagree with you here. If we read further ;

The god thinks it necessary to mark Cain almost immediately so that no-one else will kill him. The very next verse tells us that Cain immigrates to the land of Nod and meets his wife. Then it tells us that his son builds an entire city (that implies a sizeable group were already at Nod)

Then the alternative you are suggesting that this entire section is a later insert ? Do you have any other evidence for that ?

A couple of other alternatives ;

Ha-Adam and family were not the only group of humans created, but are merely the group this story and god are concerned with.

The purpose of this story is simply to further the theme of the consequences of the knowledge of good & evil. From that pov this story was an add-on to the earlier story of Adam,Eve and the exile from Eden. That other human groups exist is inconsequential to that ongoing theme. Cain is sent away, the evil is sent away to others.

I do think that it is possible that this entire story was added to the older Adam/Eve legend, but sans any independent evidence for those specific passages being added to this story I don't buy that.

Ray Moscow

The text does seem to imply that there were other people already living around the area when Cain killed his brother.

Where they came from, we aren't told.

Presumably Cain married one of these other people, too -- and not his unmentioned sister.

So, we seem to have a story from another tradition that got brought into a narrative where it doesn't really fit very well. There are of course lots of these bits in Genesis.

Ray

Clouseau

This is an allegory about punishment, repentance and mercy. Murder brings retribution from society, not always through the rule of law- in ancient times, blood feuds, based on 'an eye for an eye', were common; so to murder was likely to bring on oneself the wrath of the tribe or family of one's victim, and from anyone else who felt that murderers should perish, which Cain perhaps thought reasonable that they should. Escape into the wilderness was the only recourse. The allegorical wilderness was the habitation of those whom God punished in Psalm 107:40, and in Job 12:24-25, a wilderness of darkness.

Cain pleaded for mercy, which was not an explicit expression of remorse for his wickedness, but at least it was recognition of the potential mercy of the deity. For this much, Cain was given a measure of protection. The same principle applies for those who, because of Christ, repent of sin, not just in this life, but in the afterlife. The place of the damned was referred to by Jesus as 'outer darkness'; the damned by Jude as 'wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved for ever'- not Cain's wilderness, but an absolute one.

fanucon

I don't even know how to respond.

i usually play devils advocate as i am a Christian myself, and have my own interpretations of things like this

Magdlyn

The question was:

When Cain says, "Whoever," to whom is he referring?

This is irrelevant xian preaching and does not address the OP.

It seem obvious that in the Cain story, polytheism is understood. YHWH created Adam and Eve, she gave birth to sons. YHWH (even tho, of course, he was not known by that name until Moses' time hundreds of yrs later ) was their god. There were other peoples, doubtless having their own national gods, and Cain married one of them.

The simplest explanation is the best.

Clouseau

The answer, as found in the part that has been snipped, is 'anyone' - in an allegorical context, of course. And if people feel that a textually supported explanation for that is preaching, there is nothing that can be done about it.

-Jay-

Excellent observation. The Genesis stories, with their plural references to gods, the clear implication that there were other peoples around, and obvious influences from surrounding cultures absolutely scream "cultural foundation myth".

regards,

NinJay

-Jay-

Isn't there some "guideline" about taking the literal sense of the passages if they make sense literally and taking a metaphorical sense if they make sense only metaphorically? This is one of those cases where the literal interpretation of the words makes perfect sense, but it leads down a path that many conservative Christians can't stomach.

The passage says what it intends to say - it doesn't need to be interpretted allegorically. Cain killed his brother. God, interacting directly with Cain the way you'd interact with your neighbor, got mad and threw Cain out of the Garden. Cain was distraught because 1) he wouldn't be in God's presence anymore (which implies that YHWH was a regional god) and 2) the other people that Cain knew were out there would do him harm.

There's no need nor is there any contextual justification to make that passage say anything other than what it says.

regards,

NinJay