Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 11-04-2004, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Nono, that was when he went to give an account of himself in Betlehem in Judah(ism), and in case you missed it, he skipped Passover for good reason.

So you are conflating Genesis Joseph with gospel birth narrative Joseph?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

That's what the temple ruckus was all about

That was Jesus, not Joseph. Is this mulligan stew religion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Sure, shepherds herding sheep at night to vacate the stable.

More mixing and matching. The shepherds have nothing to do with Genesis Joseph, which seemed to be what you were talking about a while back.

You are also working under the general misapprehension of the text due to poor translation. There is no stable involved. The word given as "manger" was an eating place. Your notion of shepherds vacating a stable is not based on anything in the text at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

The shepherds were is ousia's that were given up in exchange for the par-ousai. Remember the great pearl parable? The shepherds were his helpers (qualities) and they were taking care of his assets outside his conscious mind to make sure that the house was swept clean so no evil spirits could return (his rebirth was a non-rational event).

Are you trying to make sense to me here?

Are you conflating the shepherds of Luke's birth narrative with some idea of yours not stated in the text (which may indirectly be related to the fishers of men idea)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

There must be a whole bunch of them but here is one "I tell you truly, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices; you will grieve for a time, but your grieve will be turned into joy" (Jn.16:20)

And here is a better one (my all time favorite), Jn.21:18:

I tell you solemly:
as a young man
you fastened your belt
and went about life as you pleased;
but when you are older
you will stretch out your hands,
and another will tie you fast
and carry you off agianst your will.

Very poetic and a lovely gospel, spin.

To bad it gives no hint of relevance to your general thesis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

There is actually a flash-back to this passage in Revelation someplace but I forgot where.

That's a small relief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

How does Galilee come into the Joseph (the ex-slave) story?

Because he went there under the power of the HS (Luke14:4), which was the angel of the lord in Matthew.

This is not the Joseph sold into slavery. This is the father of Jesus Joseph. You cannot conflate them. They might have the same name but extremely different literary contexts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Besides, don't all born-again people go to where "the spirit is moving," and if that is called Galilee, so be it.

You are supposed to be putting together a coherent argument, not trying to induce me into being your accomplice in the mad metaphorization of yours.

You have not attempted to argue for your notions of Israel and Galilee being states of mind. Please try to give a coherent argument that is relatively completet in itself which requires no recourse to outside information that you haven't stated, which requires explanations for any conflations you put forward, which justify the process which leads you to your generic metaphorization of gospel material in your idiosyncratic manner.

Plug the leaks so that I don't get taken off somewhere else by your leaky thought.

spin

Chili · 11-04-2004, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

So you are conflating Genesis Joseph with gospel birth narrative Joseph?

Genesis Joseph? I never read past Gen.3 and there is no Joseph there. The child called Jesus was the the living proof that the firstborn did not perish under the wrath of Herod and therefore he stayed in Jerusalem which is the fathers house.

Quote:

That was Jesus, not Joseph. Is this mulligan stew religion?

Christ was born to Joseph and they called him Jesus because it was supposed that he was the son of Joseph (hint, it does not say that he actually was the son of Joseph but he was the son of Mary who was begotten from above).

Quote:

More mixing and matching. The shepherds have nothing to do with Genesis Joseph, which seemed to be what you were talking about a while back.

It's about Joseph the upright Jew who was led to Bethlehem where he gave an account of himself as if he was pregnant with dispair.

Quote:

You are also working under the general misapprehension of the text due to poor translation. There is no stable involved. The word given as "manger" was an eating place. Your notion of shepherds vacating a stable is not based on anything in the text at all.

There was no room at the Inn means that the [lower] house was vacant and the shepherd/sheep metaphor designates it an empty stable except for the ox and the mule who represent the passified Adam and Eve as the prevailing mood in the lower house. Poor translation? It's by far the most poetic of all.

Quote:

Are you trying to make sense to me here?

Are you conflating the shepherds of Luke's birth narrative with some idea of yours not stated in the text (which may indirectly be related to the fishers of men idea)?

Yes, the shepherds were recalled to become the "fishers of men" in effort to move the existing faith of Joseph (and this includes Judaism under Judas) into the upper house for understanding. This takes place in the gospels untill all the fish are gone in the left side of the boat and are plentifull on the right side.

Quote:

To bad it gives no hint of relevance to your general thesis.

Yes it does but to help you identify it in our modern day let me say that that is where the carcass lies wherefore the vultures are marching our streets in "two by two's" to find them. It once was called "'involutional melancholia" before yin/yang medicine was found to be effective in its cure.

Quote:

That's a small relief.

sorry

Quote:

This is not the Joseph sold into slavery. This is the father of Jesus Joseph. You cannot conflate them. They might have the same name but extremely different literary contexts.

This Joseph was a slave to the Morning Star and with a renewed ambition he "took on each day" anew until finally he cursed the very ground he walked on. It was about then, but not until then, that his female identity called Mary could lead him back to his place of birth for a second go-around in life. This would become the New Heaven and the New Earth.

spin · 11-04-2004, 09:12 AM

Sorry, Chil, you lost me. I'm at the stage where I can see nothing that stops you floating off into outer space. I tried to see some reason for you to post your stuff, but it is x is why because I say so, but then y is z for the same reason and it's q for the, well, you guessed it...

What gives, good lost soul? Why are you on low frequency when everyone else is on VHF?

There was no stable. You are just stuck with this wrong translation. Try and find a stable in your text. Look at Matt 2:11 "... they came into the house..." A manger is an eating place. You are creating fancies on erroneous ideas. You have to deal with what the text says literally and decide why you can't read it literally before you run to metaphor.

This is what I said last time:

Quote:

You are supposed to be putting together a coherent argument, not trying to induce me into being your accomplice in the mad metaphorization of yours.

You have not attempted to argue for your notions of Israel and Galilee being states of mind. Please try to give a coherent argument that is relatively completet in itself which requires no recourse to outside information that you haven't stated, which requires explanations for any conflations you put forward, which justify the process which leads you to your generic metaphorization of gospel material in your idiosyncratic manner.

Plug the leaks so that I don't get taken off somewhere else by your leaky thought.

(Emphasis added.)

Logic starts with known facts, ie things that you and your interlocutor share in common, as foundations for argument. Without known facts you can't get anywhere. There's almost nothing in the material below that I would think any person here can share with you as accepted starting knowledge. This means that you are doing little communication and it seems that you are not try to communicate, other than in your efforts to open more uninviting doors into your castle of mysteries.

spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Genesis Joseph? I never read past Gen.3 and there is no Joseph there. The child called Jesus was the the living proof that the firstborn did not perish under the wrath of Herod and therefore he stayed in Jerusalem which is the fathers house.

Christ was born to Joseph and they called him Jesus because it was supposed that he was the son of Joseph (hint, it does not say that he actually was the son of Joseph but he was the son of Mary who was begotten from above).

It's about Joseph the upright Jew who was led to Bethlehem where he gave an account of himself as if he was pregnant with dispair.

There was no room at the Inn means that the [lower] house was vacant and the shepherd/sheep metaphor designates it an empty stable except for the ox and the mule who represent the passified Adam and Eve as the prevailing mood in the lower house. Poor translation? It's by far the most poetic of all.

Yes, the shepherds were recalled to become the "fishers of men" in effort to move the existing faith of Joseph (and this includes Judaism under Judas) into the upper house for understanding. This takes place in the gospels untill all the fish are gone in the left side of the boat and are plentifull on the right side.

Yes it does but to help you identify it in our modern day let me say that that is where the carcass lies wherefore the vultures are marching our streets in "two by two's" to find them. It once was called "'involutional melancholia" before yin/yang medicine was found to be effective in its cure.

sorry

This Joseph was a slave to the Morning Star and with a renewed ambition he "took on each day" anew until finally he cursed the very ground he walked on. It was about then, but not until then, that his female identity called Mary could lead him back to his place of birth for a second go-around in life. This would become the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Chili · 11-04-2004, 09:31 AM

. . . and four living creatures fell down and worshipped God in the final consolation of philosophy. These were the 12 shepherds and their retrofit as apostels serving the four identities that were identified in Gen. 3. As shepherds they served the Adam identity of Joseph who took the cunning serpent as his wife and called her Eve when he left Eden.

Later, after having reached the end of his worldly desires, he carved a clearing in the wilderness around him to prepare for a new beginning and set out towards the seventh day of creation Gen.1 from where he identified the Lord as Christ and the woman as Mary who herself was the evidence of the Lord's richess in heaven and he needed the same old shepherds to get there but now in a diffenent role.

spin · 11-04-2004, 10:25 AM

There was Daddy Bear, Mummy Bear and Baby Bear. And they were out for a walk when they became very tired and needed somewhere to rest, so when they saw this nice little cottage they thought they'd stop and ask for shelter so they could rest, but strangely no-one was home at the time... I could go on, but that is not the central issue here. These three bears are the trinity in Inuit legend and the trinity as you know is a metaphor for knowledge (Daddy Bear), creativity (Mummy Bear) and Love (Baby Bear), for greater love has no bear...

It's very sad that no-one was home when they decided to stop, but Goldilocks was down at the local gym taking in some sun lamp rays, so because of her vanity she missed out on the good gifts of Daddy Bear, Mummy Bear and Baby Bear. Of course she came home too late and found not even one bear in her bed, so she went without that night.

spin

rlogan · 11-04-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

for greater love has no bear...

spin

And lo, ere the bears awoke did goldilocks bring forth her .375 magnum identity and didst lay blessing upon them.

For the Lord hadst spake "make ye points hollow and ye jacket of copper for thine vessels of Winchester.

And so it was, that brain and eye of bear didst splatter. As yon thread.

Chili · 11-04-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Genesis Joseph? I never read past Gen.3 and there is no Joseph there. The child called Jesus was the the living proof that the firstborn did not perish under the wrath of Herod and therefore he stayed in Jerusalem which is the fathers house.

This was meant to be an alert for you spin because the very mind that must be annihilated occupied the father's house. Let me take you back to Gen.1 where man was God but allowed the ideal of being "like god" to usurp the throne of God, which must now be vacated to become the New Jerusalem in Israel where Pure Reason rules by day and by night (no dreamers in heaven, lol).

spin · 11-04-2004, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlogan

And lo, ere the bears awoke did goldilocks bring forth her .375 magnum identity and didst lay blessing upon them.

For the Lord hadst spake "make ye points hollow and ye jacket of copper for thine vessels of Winchester.

And so it was, that brain and eye of bear didst splatter. As yon thread.

Apocryphal gospel. Perversion. Burn the heretic.

inps

spin · 11-04-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

This was meant to be an alert for you spin because the very mind that must be annihilated occupied the father's house. Let me take you back to Gen.1 where man was God but allowed the ideal of being "like god" to usurp the throne of God, which must now be vacated to become the New Jerusalem in Israel where Pure Reason rules by day and by night (no dreamers in heaven, lol).

Quick, tie a rope around his leg before he is drawn up off into the cosmos never to be seen again!

spin

Toto · 11-04-2004, 02:45 PM

I think this thread has had enough time to develop, and it is clearly Elsewhere material.

:wave:

11-04-2004, 09:31 AM	#24
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	Twenty four elders . . . . . . and four living creatures fell down and worshipped God in the final consolation of philosophy. These were the 12 shepherds and their retrofit as apostels serving the four identities that were identified in Gen. 3. As shepherds they served the Adam identity of Joseph who took the cunning serpent as his wife and called her Eve when he left Eden. Later, after having reached the end of his worldly desires, he carved a clearing in the wilderness around him to prepare for a new beginning and set out towards the seventh day of creation Gen.1 from where he identified the Lord as Christ and the woman as Mary who herself was the evidence of the Lord's richess in heaven and he needed the same old shepherds to get there but now in a diffenent role.

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11-04-2004, 10:25 AM	#25
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	There was Daddy Bear, Mummy Bear and Baby Bear. And they were out for a walk when they became very tired and needed somewhere to rest, so when they saw this nice little cottage they thought they'd stop and ask for shelter so they could rest, but strangely no-one was home at the time... I could go on, but that is not the central issue here. These three bears are the trinity in Inuit legend and the trinity as you know is a metaphor for knowledge (Daddy Bear), creativity (Mummy Bear) and Love (Baby Bear), for greater love has no bear... It's very sad that no-one was home when they decided to stop, but Goldilocks was down at the local gym taking in some sun lamp rays, so because of her vanity she missed out on the good gifts of Daddy Bear, Mummy Bear and Baby Bear. Of course she came home too late and found not even one bear in her bed, so she went without that night. spin

11-04-2004, 02:45 PM	#30
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I think this thread has had enough time to develop, and it is clearly Elsewhere material. :wave:

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