JPD

Ooops - I used to believe but well done for drawing an entirely false conclusion.

At any time my mind plays host to a wide variety of figments. Should I suddenly start apologising to any of them I would fully expect my body to be engaged in the activity of packing a suitcase for a stay in a mental hospital. Is the practice of imagining the composition of the essence of God possible? If so, please explain what it is composed of and provide an explanation of this. If it isn’t then you have no idea what it is that is being apologised to. If your God hates cowards then I can only imagine the effect that apologising might have on his holiness, so-called because he provides as much protection as a string vest but fails to make as much sense through his various conduits.

John A. Broussard

There's a Malaysian cult which also feels it has found the way, the truth and the life. They worship a Giant Teapot.

What reason can you give me for believing that you are right and they are wrong?

I look forward to your explanation.

Thank you.

Helpmabob

Hi Harumi- Thank you for the reply - I have read your post, and I understand. It seems in a large part to boil down to ‘show me God, then I will believe’. I can’t; but I do not ask you to prove to me there is no God. There is an abundance of evidence in the universe, and a revelation of His majesty and glory in the Old and New Testaments. And there are folk like me who will tell you what treasure we have discovered. There is also the option never to turn to Him in this life if you so wish – you can ‘relax’ and ‘rely’ on that. I am very tempted to use capital letters here to emphasise this point, but I shall refrain: I cannot prove that God exists.You mean if forced? Don’t wait for proof, actively seek God. Accept that a God that made us, our minds, hearts and souls, will want us to know Him with our minds, hearts and souls.How else do you deal with sin, or have you never really sinned? Tell them this from me, please: neither attending church, nor being very religious will in itself save anyone. It is only by grace, through faith.

Hi JPD – My apology is made to the creator of the universe, and my Saviour and Lord. Seeing as you do not believe in God, then your words and actions appear to be entirely justified and perfectly justifiable. You obviously have considered your position very carefully, and have determined that all is well.

Hi John – I cannot speak for Malaysian cults.

John A. Broussard

Are you saying that in worshipping a Giant Teapot they may be everybit as right in their choice of a deity as you? That you just don't know?

I look forward to your answer.

JGL53

I like tea. Maybe one day I might decide to worship the Malaysian Giant Teapot. Thanks for the tip there, JAB.

OTOH, Helpmebob's god pretty much sucks ass. I think I'll give him a permanent pass.

Harumi

Helpmabob, you have made a common mistake that most theists here make. The burden of proof is on you who is making the positive assertion. If I believed in elves, it would be rather absurd to make you try to prove that they don't exist. Instead, it would be up to me to prove that they do. So you see, the burden lies on you.

As for evidence, what evidence are you talking about? When I was a child and saw all the evidence of the supernatural around me, I attributed them all to the Chinese gods I was raised with. So what proof do you have then, that these proofs of yours are proofs of the existence and presence of your god as opposed to mine?

You are mistaken. If God shows up, I will believe in him, just as if an alien shows up, I will believe they exist too. This is not forcing, as they can be in front of me and I can still choose not to believe. However, how can I choose when as far as I can see, there was never a choice at all? So, if you are going to talk about choice, due to lack of evidence, I am forced to not believe in god.

Do you talk as if we are ignoramuses who are self-satisfied. Most of us here on this board are always searching, always trying to seek the truth. This is a misconception that most theists have. I personally feel that atheists are the opposite from theists. Theists have already stopped searching. Atheists never do.

Have you read The Lucifer Principle? It contains a lot of the ideas that I feel about sin. Human nature commits evil, but it is not unique in the animal kingdom. We only do worse because we are more intelligent. Me, I strive to understand my impulses and overcome them, without needing the existence of God to guid me. I do it because I want to.

As for my friends, well, they say that they politely disagree. My friend tells me this: If a god that is good will send me to hell because I have fervently searched and still ended up making an honest mistake, such a god is not good.

And if it so happens that god is real and I end up in hell, she intends to join me.

JPD

Doubtless insults have been traded with those you have informed are going to hell in the past but looking at the quality of your posts I can see that I couldn't do half as good a job of insulting you as you are doing yourself. Your arguments are the same tired old dogmatic tripe masquerading as enlightened thought and you really should get yourself some which are going to present any kind of challenge. Perhaps you could read 'A History of God' by Karen Armstrong and see how religious thought has developed. Once you have brought yourself up-to-date you might be able to come out with something original or even just a new slant on an old view. As it stands, that horse you are flogging has just got up and wandered off to find something interesting to do with its life.

Clarice O'C

You deal with it by apologizing to the person you've wronged.

Clarice O'C

I just had to check the Giant Teapot out. It's pink! This is the only link I could find but maybe my keywords weren't precise enough or something:

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/016303.html

"Teapot worshipers believe the teapot represents the purity of water. The cult's leaders say the giant teapot was inspired by the dreams of one of its followers and reflects a similar structure God uses to shower his blessings on people. It claims no religious structure, and its followers may follow whichever religion they choose."

Sounds like Christianity.

Here's a pic of the Giant Pink Teapot:

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s/s53.html#Subject2




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http://www.samharris.org/

Helpmabob

Hi Harumi – I should have used capitals, but I repeat - I cannot prove that God exists. The evidence of which I talk is that of the universe – the evidence of a creator, as revealed in the Bible. What have you Chinese gods to say about what lies at the outermost reaches of the universe, for example?

Let me tell you this about God: if you go to Him, he is willing to forgive.

Then atheists will never find rest. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. [Matthew 11:28]

That is not quite correct for chistians, at least: we are content in what we have found, but we continue to seek the will of God, day by day.

If you fervently search, you will find. "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. [Matthew 7:7,8]

Hi Clarice – How can you be absolutely sure that all the people you have ever wronged will forgive you absolutely?

p.s. I’ll have a coffee thanks.