Vincent Guilbaud

In the thread Why would the disciples die for a lie?, shome42 asked:
shome42, my answer is that your teacher is quite correct,:thumbs:
people can die for a belief, but it is very unusual that people die for something they KNOW is a lie.

He gives us a very good argument against the secular thesis
which says that Jesus has existed and was the founder of the movement,
but he was just a man.

Indeed If Jesus has existed,
the very first christian disciples and apostles certainly KNEW if he raised from the dead or not.
So, if he didn't raise,
they would have created consciously a big lie, a conspiracy,
and risk their life for it.
Not impossible, but weird.
Very few would risk everything for something they know is not true.

Of course, if Jesus was nothing else than a mythical figure,
his raising from the dead is not any more a lie but a belief,
and we have countless examples of people ready to do anything for their faith.

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I talked about it on the imdb board;
Danielle Movie on IMDB

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This argument has also been used by earl Doherty in his Postscript:
Jesus Puzzle Postscript

If, on the other hand, Jesus was simply an ordinary human man,
a humble (if somewhat charismatic) Jewish preacher,
who really said little of what has been imputed to him,
who performed no real miracles,
and who of course did not rise from the dead
-all of which might explain why he attracted no great attention
and could have his life ignored as unimportant by his later followers—
what, then, is the explanation for how such a life and personality could have given rise
to the vast range of response the scholars postulate,
to the cosmic theology about him,
to the conviction that he had risen from the dead,
to the unstoppable movement which early Christianity seems to have been?

This is an unsolvable dilemma.