Sheshbazzar

I perceive the story as emblematic, the five smooth stones figurative and integral with the "pattern" of all other mathematical and geometrical considerations.
Translation into other languages leaves out the shades of meanings that are inherent in the original text, for while translation and context may require the phrase "smooth stones", the words being translated as "smooth" and "stones" have a broader range of meaning, interpretation, and symbolism within the original language than what is apparent in translations.
What is perceived and understood to be a "stone" or a "smooth stone" is dependent upon individual perception and visualization.
For example, try now to visualize these five smooth stones, do you perceive them to be equal in size, shape and weight? or to significantly vary in these qualities?
Of course no one is in a position to state by this individual text as to whether these smooth stones were equal or unequal in shape, size, or weight.
Thus by faith alone, one man will visualize them as identical, and another as varying.

Now truly this is a matter of individual perception, however based on all of my years of biblical studies and my personal convictions regarding the subjects of Scriptural mathematics and geometry, to me they must be accounted as perfectly equal in all respects as to size, weight, and dimension, being emblematic of a multitude of weightier matters. (diverse weights, diverse measures, Lev. 19:35-36, Deut. 25:13-16)

Chili

I would pay attention to the [shepherd] staf in hand, the smoothness of the stones that had been polished as if by living water that he retained to fortify the script that very much was his own. Armed with this conviction he defeated the Philistine he was or had been.

Five is not four. Five is beyond the four corners of his world wherein he was a Philistine (was he?).

Sheshbazzar

I used the word 'emblematic' to to describe that image/idea association that is to be found throughout the Scriptures, Here the type-antitype would be the Son of Man (The Good Shepherd) with a "bruised reed" (or "measuring reed") for a "staff" in His hand, a symbol and emblem of His ultimate authority and triumph over all enemies. and His "sling", a simple measuring line describing a circle, the "smooth stones", particular fixed quantities.
The "sling" being more than a sling, the "script" being more than money, the "bag" being more than a bag, the "stones" being more than stones; Mene Mene Tekel Peres; time, times, and a dividing of time.
In time, there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

Chili

I responded to say hello to you Sheshbazzar and knew there was more to what you wrote.

"The brook" image is a sure sign of purification which also is found throughout the scriptures. In my view, four is the world and five is the inversion of the faith we once had in our world. It is a sign of abandonment and the treshold of a new beginning at the number 6 where these stones are converted into one solitair.

Sheshbazzar

We are in agreement on this Chili, I wonder whether atheists on here could arrive any such similar consensus? And "The brook" and the water is?
Symbolism and idiom seems to be a rather uncomfortable and unaddressed subject here, perhaps as "in hearing they shall hear, and shall not understand, and seeing they shall see, and yet not perceive."
How wonderful it is Chili, when we are found altogether foolish in their sight, in that we give witness to that voice that speaks into our hearts and into minds, saying; This is the way, walk now in it, and having vision that exceeds that seeing which is by sight, that the pattern may be discerned and understanding granted unto them that know themselves to be foolish.
Lifting up an ensign to the nations, that unto this day remains unrecognized by the wise in the wisdom of this world, I declare unto you here this mystery, that as it was in the days of David, I have here with me five loaves of uncommon bread, even that bread which David did eat, and them that were with him, and in the five fingers of my left hand, a sling of five cubits in length, and five smooth stones are even now in my script bag to bring down Goliath and all of his kindred, even five kings shall not withstand.
If you stretch forth you hand to grasp it, it shall come to pass even as it was written, five of us shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of us shall put ten thousand to flight: and our enemies shall fall before our sword.
Howbeit to so prevail we must "go up armed" even as David commanded, united, five as one, and one as five, fifty a rank. And the banner, emblem, and ensign under which we march forward to this battle must be one, and of one pattern, of one measure, and of one appearance throughout the kingdom, that we might be one people, prevailing against all.
Every time has its season, and every number has its power and has its place, five loaves and two fishes divided among all are even yet sufficient to feed unto fullness five thousand, with twelve baskets left over, if they will hear these words, to sit together in ranks as hundreds, and as fifties, even as fives, as many as are hungered shall surely be fed.
Symbolism, idiom, and figurative speech, how much escapes them who willfully blind themselves!
In time, nothing is hidden, that shall not be made manifest.

Zerubabble

Sheshbazzar

Yes, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. Hundreds of "just as good" explanations cannot deliver;
One answer alone is correct, even as is a watchword in the day of testing, when the Shibboleth is required, they are cut off that will speak any other word; millions of words are "possibilities" only one can deliver you.
Enter in by the narrow gate; Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life.
That you may know it, there is a people whose word is one word, if you know that word, you do well to speak that word faithfully, if you know not that word, you do well to withhold all other words until you receive that word into your heart and into your mind, that you might live and not die.

Zerubabble

Chili

Wow, beautifull words Zeruababble. They are like music to my ears and I can hardly stop from singing. My problem is that I can't sing and I am not really an evangelist who would take up 'arms' to change the world around him. It is just that I feel offended when careless attacks are made on sacret passages when this is done out of spite.

I'd say 'good going' Sheshbassar, but I am also here for my benefit. I think that this is a great place to get some food for thought and practice 'the argument' without offending anyone.

It was good to see you again. You are like a rose among thorns here.

Sheshbazzar

Differing ministries, but the body is yet One body, For such was the righteousness of David in the day when he made it a statute and an ordinance for Israel unto this very day; "But as his part is that goes down to the battle, so shall his part be that remains by the stuff: they shall part alike."
The world shall be changed, not by me, nor any by evangelist, but by Him who has appointed a time for that change.
Beloved, within our camp is much "stuff", if you stand steadfast by our stuff, you remain a faithful servant of Him whom we both serve, and nothing that is gained by the battle will be withheld, but as fellow countrymen under the command of One King, we shall share alike.

Zerubabble

Chili

I fully agree, but then, what about the change brought about by the evangelist? Is that were hell is at? Or is there something in between where they do not belong since it was not the appointed time for their change?

Would they be just filthy rags soaring through midheaven on a nicely tied bundle of bible passages?

Sheshbazzar

There is change, and there is the change; What about the changes brought about by these evangelists?
The doctrine of the kingdom was the good seed that they were appointed to sow, but being flesh and according to the fashion of flesh, they partied, they drank wine and fell asleep, while they were sleeping the adversary came in slyly and defiled their seed-bags by mingling in his evil seeds, even the doctrines of the demons. When they aroused from their drunken slumbers, they arose and went forth and sowed the field with that mingled seed that was in their bags. And there came up thorns and thistles,yes, brother turned against brother, then innocent blood was shed in the fields and in the homes;
This is that change brought upon us by the evangelists, even divisions, brother against brother, house against house, and congregation against congregation.
Brother, You hear that there be divisions amongst us, Why are there divisions amongst us? One reason, the workmen sow that what ought not be sown, thinking that labor alone suffices, and neglecting all admonition to rightly divide the word of truth. Traditions long since replaced the personal dedication and personal responsibility by which holy men ought to live in true holiness.

Let a true workman who regards the fruits of that labor, minutely examine the contents of his bag, and inquire diligently, where did this strange seed come from? separate it out, and set aside that strange seed for the burning, and sow it in field no more;
Howbeit these will not listen nor refrain their hands and lips for now they have been transformed into the servants of the prince of this age, the Son of Perdition, to sow his seeds upon the earth, even as it was prophesied of old, let them therefore serve him until that day of the harvest wherein the tares shall be gathered and bound into bundles and thrown into the fire, every evil seed shall also be cast therein and burned. And this also is marvelous in our sight.

Zerubabble