Skyfurnace

Has anyone ever simply tried using some type of logic when thinking of bible stories, etc.? The second you do, none of it makes any real sense. This is what I have never understood about the history of Christianity and other religions; the supernatual suddenly makes all kinds of sense when put in the form of a religion.

I think that is has to do with how much your parents brainwash you into believing in a religion as a child. Remember, children are very impressionable. You could tell a small child almost anything and he/she will probably belive you. This idea would certainly relate to why I became agnostic; my mother simply didn't try hard enough to brainwash me. Every time my religious ideas are brought up, she always says, "It's my fault," or something along those lines.

Now, I'm not saying that religion is ALL bad. Most of the values taught by Christianity and others include (for the most part) good morals to live by (this is excluding all of the asinine implications about homosexuality, and so forth).

Anyway, I'm just ranting here. If anyone would like to share their thoughts as well, I'm up for a good discussion.

Doctor X

Before the minions start squawking that "this does not belong here," welcome to the forums, Skyfurnace.

Certainly parents and cultures start the process--most people raised as Jews are Jews, most raised as Catholics are Catholics, and most raised as Yankees fans deserve nothing less than derision [Stop it!--Ed.].

However, I think most who "practice" religion--not just call themselves a "somethingian" and show up to the Temple/Church/Virgin Sacrifice on certain days because "it is the thing to do"--require an active participation. They have to drive the belief.

As the philosophy pages have rehashed, religion serves certain needs. Frankly, it is comforting to know that the universe cares about you.

Scripture serves for many as a "foundation" to belief. As much as humans may be "pattern finders" and such or have "belief engines" they seek validation for belief. Scripture promises that.

Unfortunately, as you recognize, scripture does not actually seem very "true."

Theologians have actually recognized these problems. Indeed, part of the "charm" of the Bible is it preserves debates and reexplanations--Chronicler rewriting Samuels-Kings, a Redactor(s) stitching together various creation and patriarchal stories to give us the Torah, the Mt and Lk rewriting Mk, even later writers composing letters under the name of Paul. As theology develops, one has to reinterpret or reinvent scripture.

For some this is too much. Thus, even here, you will have a poster claim "it is all true" or try to deny the re-editing. To admit such admits doubts and that shakes the foundation of faith, apparently.

--J.D.

Barcode

The problem with The Bible is it seems you're required to do the following *before* you accept its stories as being true (or some of them at least - the crucifixion and resurrection are the basics).

- Believe it is the word of God.
- Believe it is necessary to pray and think deeply about various passages.
- Understand that some things are in context (fair enough -- but you can figure this out *whilst* you're reading).

Most people have a bias before they approach the text; thus preventing an open and honest evaluation.

Now, if The Bible is the word of God, why should we need to be convinced *beforehand*? It should be able to stand up and convince us on it's own merits without requiring foreknowledge or accepting that one needs to be " guided " by the " Holy Ghost " in forming the correct interpretation.

Thus I've always contended that if God values reason and logic and integrity -- he will not object if I decide to apply such modes of thought to religious texts. And he would value it if I formed my *own* conclusion independently of what religious authorities (because the church is fallible) may wish to dictate every Sunday.

Would God rather we believed blindly? Or would he value us using our reasoning capacities to the best of our ability? I suspect the latter.

And if such reasoning leads me away from The Bible (but not from a belief in something else) then I must conclude the word of God is rather errant and doesn't stand up to examination.

Hence I consider The Bible God to be absurd; but I'm *open* to other concepts.

On the other issue: I attribute my atheism in part to being raised in a household where reading and exploring alternative viewpoints and religions was encouraged.

If I can understand my upbringing factors into my lack of belief, then why can't so many Christians at least make the cognitive leap between how they were raised and what they believe in today? *That´s* what I find baffling - there appears to be some cognitive dissonance at work.