ziffel

Bill reminds me of, who was it ... Bible John I think (also a Calvinist, IIRC), who was always going on about "spiritual terrorists". He comes to an atheist forum to tell us how evil all the false Christians are. What a strange place for them to rant.

At any rate, Bill, you seem entirely disinterested in any real discourse, or to defend any of your positions. Posting bible verses and xian links and ignoring responses puts you in the street preacher class. But then, I guess that was your objective, so well done.

Splarnst

You prefer one particular translation of ancient fairy tale? And...?

cycomiko

everyone here is waiting on you to engage in discussion and reason. quoting the bible doesn't prove the bible.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to Bill Joey: Have you corresponded with Bible John? Are you Bible John using a different name? You argue a lot like Bible John did. He preached a lot, and he attacked other Christians a lot.

I asked you those questions in a previous post, but you did not answer them? Do you intend to answer them? If not, then it would be reasonable to assume that you are Bible John using another name. As far as I recall, Bible John was banned from these forums.

That is fine. In the King James Bible, Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." How can people reasonably verify the claim?

Martian Astronomer

Bill, I'm going to be frank with you, just on the off chance that you are being sincere: Your style of argumentation is so over-the-top comical that I can't tell if you're pulling our collective legs or not. If I was going to go to an unknown forum and pretend to be a Christian just to make Christians look bad, I would probably do exactly what you've been doing.

[Please note that the above is intended as an appeal, not an accusation of the type that is not allowed on this forum.]

As far as the links you pasted about the KJV: Don't you see how question begging it is to call a translation corrupted just because it doesn't agree with the KJV? You can't disqualify an English translation just because it is not the same as the KJV - the KJV might have some translation problems, too. You should be comparing both of them to the most reliable ancient manuscripts that you have, and see which one is truer to the "original" text.

If my memory serves, a lot of the KJV was actually translated from Latin translations of older manuscripts, not the manuscripts themselves. This caused some errors. To the best of my knowledge, the RSV and ESV are the most accurate English translations out there. I'm actually not a fan of the NIV, since it was written with a very strong evangelical bias, and it changes names, numbers, and stories to make the bible better match up with evangelical theology.

Johnny Skeptic

I think that Bill Joey is trying to divert attention away from all of the other bad arguments that he has made in other threads.

Regarding various Bible translations, the simple truth is that all major Bible translations clearly state one way or another that God created the heavens and the earth, that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that Jesus never sinned, and that Jesus' shed blood and death atoned for the sins of mankind.

I have already told Bill that I will be happy to discuss only the King James Version of the Bible. I am sure that most other skeptics do not mind discussing only the King James Version of the Bible when they have discussion with Bill.

ziffel

I believed the KJV was derived from the Textus Receptus, which most bible scholars abhor. It is rife with errors and scribal changes.

Honestly, I don't think many Christians would recognize the books of the bible as they were originally written.

Martian Astronomer

Yes, that's what I was referring to although not by name. Did I mischaracterize the situation?

ziffel

Nope, you were spot on. TR is Latin based and from medieval manuscripts, IIRC.

Bill Joey

Probably because I was listening to a radio program and eating dinner. No I have not made any contact with "Bible John" and only know of his website, because a pastor friend in Arizona sent him an email, and Bible John called up my friend and they had a heated conversation.

If you really are a former Fundamentalist (which I doubt) like you claim, then you would find a lot of similarities in preaching styles. I have heard many preachers who sound exactly like others.

Your questions make me seriously question your claims of being a former Fundamentalist and makes me seriously question if you have experience debating Fundamentalists. My guess would be that most do not show up here, because they quickly get banned, or they realize their mission is doomed. In all counts I have spending way too much time her and have neglected my wife and my children.


Bill



That is fine. In the King James Bible, Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." How can people reasonably verify the claim?