Illusionist

Christianity would be a whole lot more effective. For me at least. I mean how many people die each day? and jesus is just another. He died, and went to heaven, thats no so horrible. People a lot of times try to guilt trip you into christianity by saying "well jesus GAVE HIS LIFE for you"...but then he achieves erternal salvation right after. I think if Jesus died for me, and suffered eternally in hell for me, i would feel guilty. That would show is true love--that he would suffer eternally for our benefit. But since he died, like everyone dies, and went to heaven, i dont feel all that bad, and i dont feel it was such a sacrafice.

Magus55

Of course, Him going to Heaven after death takes away nothing from His sacrifice since He was there to begin with. Jesus leaving Heaven to come to Earth, take on human form and suffer as a human for 30 years, only to be tortured in one of the worst possible ways ever devised by humanity by the people that he came to save in the first place is far more significant than you can ever comprehend. Of course you don't see it as a sacrifice, you would never voluntarily put yourself in that position.

Chris Weimer

I think this goes to GRD. However, guilt trips don't work well with myths.

Chris Weimer

Of course, Magus55, I don't see you hanging on a cross either.

"Woe to ye, scribes and pharisees, ye hypocrites!"

"If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."

Philadelphia Lawyer

How do you figure? The point of the OP was that, out of all eternity, Jesus spent only 30-odd years on Earth, zero time in hell, and all the rest of it in heaven. Doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.

Did Jesus "suffer" more than anyone else before he began his "ministry"? I don't seem to remember anything in the Bible about anything particularly bad happening to him, prior to the crucifiction. Certainly, there were, are, and will be plenty of us ordinary humans who suffer more on Earth than Jesus did.

Lots of people endured this same torture. It was a standard form of execution. And they had to go through it without the knowledge that they would soon be back up in heaven.

But, under your religion, the people that he came to save had to kill him, otherwise he couldn't have saved them. Was Jesus thinking, "Man, these people are ungrateful; I came down here to save them, and now they're killing me!"? That wouldn't make much sense.

And if Illusionist would voluntarily put himself or herself in that position, would that change anything? Haven't lots of us ordinary humans voluntarily died just as painful a death as Jesus, for a cause, or to protect our family, or for some other purpose? And, again, not being gods, when we do it we have no certainty that we are going straight to heaven in a day and a half, like Jesus did.

Chris Weimer

Does this mean Spartacus is God?

Magus55

You're right I probably wouldn't. I'm not perfect.

Magus55

And He gained what? Would you leave paradise to be treated like absolute dirt, live in poverty, and be tortured in one of the worst ways imaginable?



For a perfect and righteous being, living in poverty among sinners who hate you probably wasn't a picnic.



I haven't met too many people that would go through what Jesus went through to save a killer or rapist or thief etc., let alone billions of people who have sinned (not necessarily killers or thieves, but nonetheless sinners).

Chris Weimer

Er, actually, it was for all of humanity. If I could, would I? Would you? Maybe that's why this myth was so popular, because all the thieves and rapists could go on raping and thieving and then ask to be forgiven. But then again, it really wasn't necessary.

spin

Singing, off to GRD!!