Kosh

Prosperity Church Crap

Wow, just... wow.

Personally, I think I'll stick with gut instincts to never trust anyone who uses the form "Initial Middlename Lastname".....

Toto

A Christian apologist here told me that Jesus' parents took the gold and saved it for Jesus' ministry, and that's why his father still had to work as a carpenter. But his mother thought he was insane. If there had been psychiatrists in those days, they probably would have spent it on proper medical care instead, and history might be different.

:rolling:

That treasurer was Judas. . .

Aren't all interpretations of the historical Jesus based on torturous interpretations and historical naivite?

So we have a bunch of ivory tower intellectual scholars trying to counter the prosperity preachers who are actually making money on Rich Jesus. As Stephen Colbert says, the market has spoken.

aa5874

If Jesus was rich it was probably because he was running a PONZI scheme.

Toto

Dr Jim's blog: is there stuffing with the roast donkey - catch the video at the end.

ApostateAbe

Mark 10:25

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. At least it was, until Christ Almighty's all-new Camel Blender and Syringe Kit!"

Newfie

Well, if we follow the money, I mean tithes, I mean offerings, or gifts ... whatever the preacher tells the flock to label the money they give him, it flows upwards and somebody is getting rich in the congregation at the expense of the lower members. So, it's more like a pyramid scheme more than a Ponzi, wouldn't you say?

Also, isn't the Prosperity Gospel line of thinking simply a way of squaring Christianity with the "American Dream?" After all, how can you be a true blue American out to seek your fortune, make it big, and be successful by following the teachings of the poor Jesus? Sure, everyone believed that the poor Jesus became the most famous human (well, half-human anyway) of all time, but who wants that, being famous but not rich? Sure, CNN might run cute stories about everyday "heros" who lead lives of self-sacrifice to help out others, but these folks aren't on ET having their messed up lives dished out for everyone to envy, are they? These folks aren't pouring out of their gowns as they pose on the red carpet, or drunkenly yanking the microphone out of a teen's hands, or having double-digit numbers of affairs, are they? Frankly, to the American public, aren't people who live simply and dedicate their lives to public service just plain boring? Definitely not the American Dream. The people who live like and most resemble the image of the poor Jesus are usually considered failures in the USA, so who would want that guy to be their saviour in that society?

spamandham

Well, he's right. If there was a HJ, it's much more likely that he was wealthy than a poor wandering preacher, in spite of the self serving reasons this particular con artist has for saying so.

ApostateAbe

In the time and place, wealth was expressed as land, big house, slaves, animals, concubines, colorful clothes, perfumes, and fine food. Two of the things that the pastor cites as evidence that Jesus was rich (gifts from the magi and the donkey) are not likely to be historically accurate. The donkey is part of messianic prophecy, and it was not a Cadillac. It was more like a Honda Civic. You would much rather have a horse or a camel. The argument about Judas the treasurer is a good point. It at least proves that Jesus had power of leadership over a small group of men, but the role of treasurer is needed to help the whole group sustain itself and to fairly distribute the goods, not necessarily to enrich Jesus.

spamandham

....and as being in a position of philosophical power over others. No-one created new cults except the educated wealthy in those times, unless Jesus was the sole exception. You had to be educated as a minimum, which required a certain family financial status.

The idea that some poor uneducated sheep herder started Christianity is just silly.

ApostateAbe

I figure that being wealthy would certainly help, but I don't see evidence in the earliest sources or in the best historiographical reconstructions that either Jesus or his family was wealthy. Nazareth was not a wealthy town, and woodworking was not a wealthy career. Jesus openly condemned the rich as being excluded from the kingdom of heaven, and he ordered rich men to give everything they have to the poor. Wealthy pastors today are forced to make ad hoc clarifications for those verses, but it is very likely that Jesus meant what he said. This would mean that Jesus was an exception to the rule, if what you say about historical patterns of cults are true, but I think it is most concurrent with the evidence.