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vid · 05-28-2008, 03:58 AM

From Martin Luther's On Jews and their lies (http://www.humanitas-international.o...uther-jews.htm):

Quote:

I have heard it said that a rich Jew is now traveling across the country with twelve horses his ambition is to become a Kokhba devouring princes, lords, lands, and people with his usury, so that the great lords view it with jealous eyes.

Can someone explain what does Kokhba denote here? Is it reference to unsucessful revolt leader Bar Kokhba, or something else?

vid · 05-28-2008, 04:52 AM

I also have another question about this book, I suppose this is some kind of medieval english phrase, and I have trouble grasping it's exact meaning:

Quote:

one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

Solitary Man · 05-28-2008, 07:54 AM

It's a reference, I imagine, to

Simon Bar Kokhba, the leader and proclaimed messiah during the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Romans in 132 CE.

Toto · 05-28-2008, 08:06 AM

I think it is explained by the first reference to Kochba at that link - as SM says, to Simon Bar Kokhba -

Quote:

Still they clung to the delusion that the Messiah must have appeared, since the seventy weeks of Daniel had expired and the temple of Haggai had been destroyed. However, they disliked the person of Jesus of Nazareth, and therefore they went ahead and elevated one of their own number to be the Messiah. This came about as follows: They had a rabbi, or Talmudist, named Akiba, a very learned man, esteemed by them more highly than all other rabbis, a venerable, honorable, gray-haired man. He taught the verses of Haggai and of Daniel, also of Jacob in Genesis 49, with ardor, saying that there had to be a Messiah among the people of God since the time fixed by Scripture was at hand. Then he chose one, surnamed Kokhba, which means "a star.

Kokhba was the false messiah, raised up in opposition to Jesus.

Toto · 05-28-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

I also have another question about this book, I suppose this is some kind of medieval english phrase, and I have trouble grasping it's exact meaning:

Quote:

one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

It's an idiomatic English phrase, in common use today, meaning more or less what it says - to grab someone physically and remove them.

premjan · 05-28-2008, 08:23 AM

Toss out by the seat of their pants means grabbing them from behind by their trousers (if you put one hand at the top of the trousers and another on the leg you can pick up someone this way - especially if they are smaller than you) and throwing them out.

The Kochba thing might refer to revolt I suppose. But Kokhba apparently means "star".

Quote:

Originally named Simon ben Kosba (Hebrew: שמעון בן כוסבא or ben Koziba, בן כוזיבא), he was given the surname Bar Kokhba (Aramaic for "Son of a Star", referring to the Star Prophecy of Numbers 24:17, "A star has shot off Jacob") by his contemporary, the Jewish sage Rabbi Akiva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_bar_Kokhba

DCHindley · 05-28-2008, 09:18 AM

Why, everyone knows that "Kokhba" is a drink served at the Simon bar. "Have you tried the Simon bar Kokhba?"

Seriously, in the passage you cited, it almost certainly means a "star" or luminary and serves as a metaphor for an important person one "looks up" to.

On your other issue, were you refering to the term "rogues" or the phrase "seat of their pants"? "Rogues" usually means something like "ruffians" (or "ne'er do wells" = loosers who sit around and get into fights or seem to always be up to no good instead of working honestly for their living). "Seat of the pants" means something like "kick them in the pants" as in "Adios! And don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

From Martin Luther's On Jews and their lies (http://www.humanitas-international.o...uther-jews.htm):

Quote:

I have heard it said that a rich Jew is now traveling across the country with twelve horses his ambition is to become a Kokhba devouring princes, lords, lands, and people with his usury, so that the great lords view it with jealous eyes.

Can someone explain what does Kokhba denote here? Is it reference to unsucessful revolt leader Bar Kokhba, or something else?

vid · 05-28-2008, 10:18 AM

I was reffering to "toss out by seat of their pants". I thought about explanation given by premjan, but wasn't sure, and I could imagine different meanings for passage. I also found multpile phrases incorporating "seat of pants" with differing meanings.

So Kokhba is basically term used for some big Jewish leader, not just the one who led revolt and was turned to Kozeba after failing it. Makes sense, thanks everyone.

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05-28-2008, 07:54 AM	#3
Solitary Man Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ירושלים Posts: 1,701	It's a reference, I imagine, to Simon Bar Kokhba, the leader and proclaimed messiah during the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Romans in 132 CE.

05-28-2008, 10:18 AM	#8
vid Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Myjava, Slovakia Posts: 384	I was reffering to "toss out by seat of their pants". I thought about explanation given by premjan, but wasn't sure, and I could imagine different meanings for passage. I also found multpile phrases incorporating "seat of pants" with differing meanings. So Kokhba is basically term used for some big Jewish leader, not just the one who led revolt and was turned to Kozeba after failing it. Makes sense, thanks everyone.

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