Dark Virtue

I asked this in another thread, but lost it and I don't think it was addressed.

If Heaven is the ultimate goal for Christians, why is it that so very little is known about it?

What is it supposed to be like? Sitting on a cloud with harps? Chatting it up with 72 virgins?

Where in the Bible does it actually describe this ultimate goal?

storytime

Matt.13:33 "Another parable spoke he unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three mesaures of meal, till the whol was leavened."

Also: Matt.13:31-32

And this one: Matt.13:10-11 "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them[the multitude] in parables? (11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

The kingdom of heaven is given to these Jewish disciples for Jesus and not to other people. The kingdom being a predistined place within their own circle of Judaism. Christians imagined it to be skyward and could never describe its enviroment having taken a literal view that they themselves were to be included. Clearly they are not.

Sheshbazzar

I posted this some time ago in the GRD forum.

"One might very well wonder, just what the Hell, and just where the Hell -is- the 'christan' heaven?

Some 'christians' believe that they are going to be re-admitted into to the Garden of Eden, located somewhere over by Assyria and the Euphrates River.
(as soon as those pesky 'Cherubims' and the 'flaming sword' get taken off guard-duty)

Other 'christians' insist that this earth, and the heavens will be burnt-up and totally destroyed to make way for a 'new heavens and a new earth'
(whatever the Hell it is that might be intended to mean)

Other 'christians' insist that this earth shall endure forever, and that the 'righteous' shall 'inherit' this earth, and live here forever, with the Jews and the christians running a new Temple in Jerusalem, acting as 'Thought Police' and dictating everyone on earth's religion and religious thought and practice.
(sounds more like Hell on earth!)

Other christians believe vaguely that when they die, their soul is going to float up out of their dead bodies into 'heaven' (the sky? another dimension? )
where they will then joyfully join in a big home-coming party with all the other people who have ever died-
Optionally, they get to look down on us poor suckers who have to make do with the troubles of this life, and perhaps come back down occasionally as 'angels' to intervene in the affairs of the living, 'fixing' up our little business boo-boos and and family relationship fuck-ups_

Other 'christians' dream that they are going to get to spend their eternity psalm-singing and strolling down solid gold streets in a gigantic 14000 mile square golden Space-Cube, that is going to arrive from outer-space (or some alternate dimension.- shades of 'Heaven's Gate' and M. Applewhite)
They are not to clear as to whether it is going to land on earth, just hover, or fly off into wherever it was that it supposedly comes from.

Other 'christians' believe life is going to go on just as we are familiar with it, only we will all become more 'civilized' and, realise that they were right all along._ after all that is what it is really all about._ imposing your views of what is 'right' and what is 'heaven' upon everyone else, mission accomplished = satisfaction = 'heaven'

Other 'christians' believe.......well, whatever the hell version of 'Heaven' it is they can dream up.

Far as I'm concerned they can ALL take ALL of their imaginary 'christian' 'heavens', and go straight to Hell with them."

Sheshbazzar

Mindsword

bummer

dont tell the christians -_-

Joan of Bark

Christians can make heaven anything they want -- confirming the view that it's really just wishful thinking, and a way to avoid coming to terms with their own mortality. When a Christian tells me "heaven is perfect", I want to ask: "oh, so you'd be better off dead?"

And JAB, get over yourself. Just put together a coherent argument about the topic and I guarantee it won't be deleted (I've never had a post deleted, and I've presented many alternative versions).

storytime

Toto

JOBcomix digression split off here

Eldarion Lathria

I rather think that Christopher Hitchens said it best. In the average Christian view, Heaven is an eternal North Korea, with everyone singing the praises of the Great Leader and Dear Leader.

Of course the question remains, what happens when everyone gets sick of praising the petty godlet Yahweh. Then you have a revolution that makes the Russian Revolution look like a spat in a sandbox.

Eldarion Lathria

dettus

Also...

"thy kingdom come
on earth as it is in heaven"

Anyway not many people go to heaven, but one day heaven will come to earth and all the good folk will be resurrected...or so some say.

Ktotwf

Heaven sounds like a terrible place. Unending worship of a tyrannical omnimax deity, full of people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.