John A. Broussard

Gosh!

lee_merrill

Thanks! I had an easy job on this one, though, "Babylon will never be rebuilt or reinhabited" is one of the most undeniable prophecies in Scripture, and yet falsifiable at any time.

Which is why I picked it! So very easy to defend, and so plain in its implications.

Blessings,
Lee

MadMez

I have a mate who served with me in the (British) Army, who did his tour of Iraq there. His unit (Royal Military Police) were based just outside the amphitheater in Babylon, and lived initially in tents with attached Iraqi forces. These are, I do believe, arabs. Arabs in tents, Lee.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...aq/babylon.htm

It's inhabited by the coalition forces, and has been for quite a while. So, say, in another 3 years that'll be you in need of a IIDB profile change. Can't wait!

mata leao

mad mez, it is you that will need a profile change.....I have been there VERY recently courtesy of Uncle and it is one of the most desolate places to stand "guard mount" imageineable, and in fact the arab bedouin to this day have a very superstitious fear of the whole area, the area where the actual palace stood. The tawdry scale model tourist attraction that Saddam Hussein built is itself even eerie, ...it is absolutely uninhabited. About three klicks away there is a kind of tawdry suburb, but that's about it. Ask anybody at MacDill air force base who has been there and they will tell you how eerie, strange and desolate it is there...there really is at night, a strange desolation to the place......nowhere in any other place have I found this, not Rome, not Jerusalem, not any other great historical place-that should be a bustling tourist center, but isnt and never ever has been. GO SEE FOR YOURSELF!!!!! Lee Merill is absolutely right. Note: Iraqi units refuse to bivouac there. REFUSE! THere is a lot of wide open ground perfect for building and military training and it remains desloate. Note: there is an end times Babylon mentioned "rising" in eschatological scripture: to be honest, I havent yet figured it out, it may be the old hanging gardens of babylon, and if so, we will see soon enough!

Sauron

Yeah, we all believe you. Let's see, so far you want us to believe that:

* you're a National Debating Champ - despite your appallingly poor performance so far in this debate;
you attended college classes where you (claim to) have heard lectures on the topic of Babylon - despite being unable to answer questions about these lectures or provide any evidence;
* that you ever studied the arguments for the resurrection in "dozens of expert treatises" - in spite of being unable to list the evidence; and
* that you have seen it debated in "many academic venues" - in spite of being unable to name any such venues;

And now you want us to believe that you just recently got back from the site of Babylon. How suspiciously convenient.

Interesting claim. Got any proof?

* Note to the audience - I'm placing a marker here at this point in the debate, so I can go back and insert "I told you so" at a future point.

The tourist attraction was never intended to be inhabited. It's a tourist attraction, not a hotel.

1. Apparently not part 1 - since there is a photo of a barracks next to the palace of Saddam.
2. Apparently not part 2 - since we have Mad Mez's buddy who just got back from serving there with UK forces, and Arabs pitching tents at Babylon

1. In point of fact, it has been off limits to such activity - that is the nature of archaeological sites;

2. In spite of that fact, the US and the Poles have used the ancient city as a military site for over two years, destroying many important artifacts in the process - funny you didn't know about that detail; are you *sure* you ever went there?

3. The area around Babylon isn't conducive to building anyhow

Yeah, we'll all stay tuned until you figure it out for us.

So you think it may hinge on the Hanging Gardens, huh? Well, poptart, I guess the Antichrist can't get his game of world domination going until he plants some petunias first! Who would have guessed that mata leao's nasty old Antichrist was actually just a misunderstood florist. :rolling:

mata leao

why are all you atheists so afraid to actually go see for yourselves? I dare you to! c'mon athtiests, where are you? commericial flights have resumed....you can get a MAC flight if you are part of a humanitarian approved org... if you are betting your immortal souls on "lonely planet" guidebooks...you might want to see for yourself!

Sauron

Why are all you christians so afraid to actually prove your arguments with real, verifiable facts?

I dare you to!

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Edited to add: come on, mata -- who do you think you're kidding?

You claim to have gone to Iraq. Recently. And not just Iraq in general or Baghdad, but you claim to have gone to BABYLON.

An outstanding opportunity for a bible thumper like yourself to prove your prophetic claims. Yet it never occurred to you to take one single photograph? To bring back one solitary image? Or souvenir?

A once-in-a-lifetime chance to see the ruins of mighty Babylon as well as evangelize an (allegedly) fulfilled prophecy, AND YOU BLEW IT?

As I said before: your claim of having recently gone to Babylon is rather like your claim of being a National Debate Champ: both claims first surfaced in an amazingly suspicious and convenient manner: right when your argument needed to be rescued from the trash heap.

mata leao

Sauron, even your atheist friends must be groaning by now....YOU say you are a project manager for a major global computer "giant" and that you have travelled extensively in Europe, the mideast, and ireland and so forth.....yet, even tho your immortal soul may depend on your "book" research of tyre and babylon you just cant seem to take that day ferry over to see for yourself! what are you AFRAID of sauron? c'mon big boy, its not too dangeropus anymore.. the real soldiers have done all the hard wordk...c'mon over brother!

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Yes, and outside of Babylon, it seems: "After Marines secured the city to protect it from further destruction, the Seabees built Camp Babylon around the ancient city in order to protect one of history's most important archaeological treasures."

Regards,
Lee

mata leao

well brother lee, the official after action reports and sitreps dont lie and they will surely be available down the pike. also, the satellite photos, when configured to the ancient ruins, ect should help. They are likley declassified and should be on the internet. People need to undertstand that you have to use a good military topographical map and not a tourist map,because the actual anceint site of the palace is fought over by the local postcard bandits fiendishly. I CAN SEE NO EARTHLY REASON WHY IT SHOULDNT BE INHABITED AND BUILT UPON TO THIS DAY......but it isnt. I cant think of any more honest, more sincere and more straightforward claim than to ask people to go theior and see for themselves.....I rode in a jeep all over the entire damn place and it is uninhabited and as barren as ancient ruins can be..... I truly cant imagine why such a critically important symbolic place of Iraqi nationalism would not be honored, enshrined, and have the bejesus of monuments and statues and so forth built there ....but there is NOTHING THERE. Lee Merill is absolutely right. If your argument is that foreign "infidel invaders" constitute inhabitants then may God help you! ,trust me, we arent inhabiting, we are standing "guard mount"!