never been there

Lunatic.

Nothing wrong with that. Gandhi freed a country (well, most of it, the rest became a pair of Muslim ratholes through no fault of his). He was a great moral example. He was also mad as a bag of hammers, which doesn't take anything away from what he achieved.

Alison

I don't think he was any of those things. He, of course, being Joshua or Yeshua.

I do believe that Jesus was the heir to the Davidic line who followed his own belief system, generally that of a Nazorite but to look where we get the image of him that we know today and all that he was supposed to have done mystically.....we must turn our heads to one Apollonius of Tyana.

Alison.

vsop44

Am I missing something here ? If Jesus was born from the virgin mary so how could he be from the David lineage since Joseph had nothing to do with his conception ? The 2 gospels mentioning the lineage from David do not correspond and have a different number of descendants !

Here is a story I read a while back that you might find interesting .

Mary was from the line of David and so was educated in a school where the teacher-priests from the line of elijah took the name
of archangels . When the girls at that school came of age they were visited by an archangel (teacher), in Mary' s case Gabriel until they were pregnant ; before the baby was born , the pregnant girls were married to well off widowers , in Mary 's case Joseph . Now I 've just solved the case of the immaculate conception for you.

I've always found this tale to be cute so I would share it .

.:devil2:

Diogenes the Cynic

[nitpick] The Immaculate Conception refers not to the conception of Jesus but to the Catholic (and non-Biblical) doctrine that Mary herself was conceived without sin. It's a common mistake, so don't feel bad. [/nitpick]

unsure

as i read these posts and replies i am absolutely amazed at the way you guys attack christians. on the one hand you claim to be so intellectual and open and free thinking but the evidence does not support that at all. the majority of you(not all) are extremely close minded and very mean spirited. i have to come to jesuslovesyou's defense. ( although it's quite clear to me she doesn't really need a defender). i wish you guys could objectively read jesuslovesyou's posts and then your replies. they don't match up at all. most of the replies are extremely condescending, arrogant and rude. any scripture introduced is not only attacked and ridiculed but ,to my amazement, actually removed from the post!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you kidding? open minded? i don't think so!!!! when you guys vomit up your "scientific" data as if it is infallible that's fine. but when a Christian states their beliefs and quotes their source(the Bible) , well that simply cannot be tolerated. how dare someone preach to you. why is it ok for you to preach to us? in what fair debate is one side allowed to use their resources to back up their beliefs but the other side is not? this is not a debate forum. this is a joke. God is real. and i assure you He is no joke. i pray that He would reveal himself to you in a real and personal way so dramatic that you won't be able deny it. please forgive any percieved stereo typing. it wasn't intentional. but it's tough to watch a sister in Christ bludgeoned for sharing the Love of Christ. God made us with a free will. you (obviously) can believe what ever you want but why the need to be so nasty. why can't we talk about this stuff without the mean spiritedness? i just don't understand it. if you guys were on a Christian web site you wouldn't be attacked in this way. you would be the minority just as jesuslovesyou is here but i am confident you would not be treated this poorly. oh well, that's all i had to say.

Sven

Where? How?

And where's the evidence for this you mentioned?

If you really think that JLY doens't need a defender - well, then I suggest to read the thread again and this time actually think about what you read.

Pot? Kettle? Black?

Examples? Apart from this, you may have noted that JLY's posts are exactly this. And BTW yours, too.

Umm, how about actually reading why it was removed? And how about noting that this happened exactly one time?

You could also explain how exactly it was ridculed - in my impression, it was discussed.

That's what I just wanted to ask you.

Well, as I say occasionally: Thinking is not an argument.

Who presented scientific data as infallible, please?

Yes. It's in the rules of the forum: No preaching. Get over it.
If you haven't noticed: Atheists get preached on all the time. Why aren't they allowed to prevent this at their own forum?

Who exactly does this? How many atheists have approached you in your live and attempted to deconvert you?
Or are you talking about the forum here? Then I have to ask: Why did you come here if you can not stand people pointing out the holes in your faith? Nobody pressed you to come here, so don't shift the fault on us.

Umm, preaching and using resources are not the same, in case you missed it.

Then why you are not laughing?

And your evidence for this is...?

Assuring is also no argument.

Thanks! That's exactly what most of us here are looking for.

Oh, I only perceived this. It's not there in reality.

Nobody pressed her to come here. *shrug*

I wonder if you've ever heard about the problem of free will vs. omniscience...?

Thanks. Please tell this to people like JLY who preach to us.

If someone comes here in an arrogant manner, it's no wonder people are not amused. *shrug*

Please read your post again and ask this yourself.

:rolling: No. Just banned.

IOW, you won't come back to see answers? That's a pity.

To close: You may note that we have many Christians here as regular posters. If we were really that bad, how is this possible?

Lola

Welcome Unsure,

Glad you posted.

Well, actually, most folks here attack the arguments made by the poster and not the person (whether they are theists or non-theists). IMHO, JLY may not have overtly flamed any one in particular, but her posts were rather bratty and catty especially towards Queen of Swords (who really needs no defense).

Sure, there are a few who can be mean-spirited, but I don't recall posters being mean to JLY. Calling someone's arguments ignorant and ridiculous is not mean spirited. Hell, I make ignorant comments all the time, and when I get called on it, I don't get bent out of shape. :Cheeky:

(What Sven said). Also, though there are some "feel-good" verses in your bible that some choose to pick out, that book has many, many attrocities in it that makes god sound like a psychopath.

BTW, easy on the exclamation marks, Hoss.

I'm sensing a bit of sarcasm, Unsure. Cool! Now, I ask would you consider JLY's posts a real "debate." Claims of faith really cannot be backed up, nor should they. A god, if it exisited could prove itself if it wanted... but then why would we need faith? Christians using the Bible as a source backing their claims is rather bizarre. BTW, the christian bible is on of the best atheist sources out there. Have you thoroughly read the chapters in I and II Samuel? That's some whacky and scary shit! *shudders*

To which god or gods do you refer, Unsure? Why is yours real and others not? How do you know that yours is the one we should worship?

Unsure, many of us have prayed this request, and he hasn't revealed himself, because we now understand that a loving, omniscient, all-powerful, judeo-christian god simply is not there. Futhermore, the fact that this god to which JLY refers doesn't exist is not at all a sad or terrible thing. Seek the truth.

Some people WANT so much to believe that they have a loving magical heavenly father telling them things will be ok in times of desperation, or telling them they are completely forgiven when they do something rotten even when no one on earth would forgive and forget (guilt is a powerful thing). If anyone needs this notion to get through life, fine for them. I think it's silly, but..... Live and let live.

Well, many of us stereotype. And, I hope you take no offense in my reply to you.

Hmm, was she sharing the love of Christ? Boy, I hate to be around her if she was pissed!

Oh, *sigh* The whole free will thing just... :crying: Oh, my brain is starting to hurt!

Well, some of us just have different approaches. Aww...come on, lighten up, Pilgrim. Ya gotta Cowboy Up sometimes, and just let it roll off ya. Just don't take things we write around here so personal, Pard!

Glad you and JLY did post, I hope you have more to say. At the risk of sounding nit-picky, it's a bit easier to read when you capitalize the first letter of your sentences.. you may have just been eager to post, but it helps us out. Don't fear using paragraphs either. Thanks, Unsure.

Regards, :wave:
Lola

McD

There's a problem here: Mary was not of the house of David. She was a Levite.

JGL53

How are you defining "tolerance" here? If people dispute your beliefs then they are ipso facto intolerant? That's rich. If someone who is religious comes to this site, and spews forth the same old tired run-of-the-mill "god loves you but you will die in hell if you reject him" crap, then you can be assured that this will be deconstructed to show the internal contradictions and absurdities. If you don't like having your head handed to you (metaphorically speaking) you need to go away and never come back to this BB because hardly anything you read here will be "tolerable" by your sensitive standards.

Again, this is really rich. I don't see where anyone "attacked" her particularly, they just explained in some very direct ways that her beliefs are baseless and irrational, for the most part. She was the one that said atheist were "fucked". That was rather rude. I don't recall anyone here using that language toward her (maybe toward her beliefs, perhaps).

Most christian BB on the net require that a person BE a christian to use the board. And most of those christian BB that don't do this up front will immediately ban anyone who disputes any aspect of their religion REGARDLESS of how nice and polite the non-believer is in making his arguments. Just like their god, christian (fundamentalists) seem rather intolerant of ANY dissent whatsoever.

Here, at a BB established mainly for the non-religious, as long as one follows some very simple rules of debate, ALL are welcome. The only people who get banned here generally are those who engage in overt ad hominem attack on other people - they are NOT banned for disputing and utterly destroying other persons philosophical claims or beliefs. This is a difference that has seemed to have escaped you apparently.

Kilgore Trout

In Luke 22:36-38 Jesus makes sure that the apostles are carrying swords. Then when one of them actually uses his sword, Jesus says "those who live by the sword will die by the sword." (Matthew 26:52)

Events like that are what makes me vote for lunatic.

Matthew 18:19-20....
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

This is clearly a lie, so that also makes him a liar.


Even if Jesus is lord, he would still have to be a lunatic, because Jesus completely goes against the Torah, yet somehow this "lord" expects Jews that know the Torah well to actually believe he is the Messiah.