McD

Ok, so we have all had this question posed to us. Which was he?

SLD

You know when Fundies pose this question, I always respond that I have met many liars and lunatics in my life, but I've yet to meet one god. History as well has been full of such wierdos proclaiming to be god. Why are they wrong and Jesus right?

That being said I voted for cult leader whom people later made up stories. But that's not entirely correct. My view is that he was probably nothing more than the leader of one of the myriad groups trying to overthrow Roman Rule in the area. I would speculate that his movement was primarily political - not religious.

SLD

Godless Wonder

I figure if he existed at all, he was a lot like David Koresh

Does that make him a cult leader, or does that make him a lunatic? Both?

motorhead

He was an apocalyptic preacher who preached the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God. He claimed this Kingdom would completely change the world order, and that it was coming either while he was alive or soon after he was killed. So, I suppose he was a cult leader, although I don't think he started a cult (as far as being organized). He was just spreading the news that the world was ending very soon. Anyone seemed to be welcome to accept that and help him spread the news.

Yes, after his death, many stories were made up about him. They took the meager batch of sayings from Jesus they had remembered and embellished them, and added new ones and the religion of Christianity grew from there.

SLD

I think too many of us have a modern view of the phrase "Kingdom of God". Hyamm Maccoby points out that in fact the phrase's meaning is more prosaic - the reinstitution of the Davidian line of Kings. It was merely a code word for the overthrow of the hated Roman Rule. Nothing eschatalogical.

SLD

ImmortalTechnique

ahh, but either way he was wrong... he didn't really end up doing anything apocalyptic OR political

Dean Anderson

I am a tentative Mythicist (i.e. I think he probably didn't exist but do not claim to know that he didn't) so I selected the myth option.

However, since someone wrote the Q sayings, then that person could qualify as the cult leader about which someone invented stories...

Killer Mike

He was just like the dozens of others claiming to be messiahas during this time. He managed to get a small gathering of followers who believed that after his death the kingdom of god would come soon. After his execution his followers became disillusioned that the kingdom of god never came, so they began to tell stories about him. These stories circulated thru oral tradition and a few written sources until the failure of the 1st Jewish revolt against the romans. After the Romans won this is when the gospels started to be written with Mark being written shortly after this war. Over time Christianity branched off from Judiasm but remained relatively a small group. Then Constatine declared about 300 years after Jesus had died to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire. And Christianity grew from there.

No he was not crazy or a lier. He was just like any preacher.

motorhead

I don't think Jesus' main intention was the overthrow of Roman rule. He announced the imminent coming of the Kingdom of God which would completely change the world, which yes, included the Roman rule of the Jews. Jesus preaches about the Kingdom, what it will be like, who will be allowed to enter it, etc. If you read closely his descriptions of how the Kingdom will come to Earth, it's cataclysmic. No one will fail to see it. The problem is he preached that it was coming in his lifetime, and then when he realized he was going to be killed for his preaching, he taught it would come shortly after he died. It turns out, he was wrong.

Chris Weimer

Even after evaluating Doherty et al. I still think that there was some sort of a Jesus who existed in Palestine around the turn of the 1st millennium.