Clivedurdle

But my point is are there any actual teachings of a real person called Jesus. At first sight "born of David's stock" sounds pretty conclusive, but is it?

I.A.Woak

If I am reading your question right, he believed that this new Jesus was not a person as we know it. The previous Jesus was, and got himself killed. Now, this new Jesus was a completely new being. Not a human, not a god. If Paul were alive today, he might have said that it was the next evolutionary step for humans. It was physical, but not like us measly animals, but rather THE "Holy Spirit". Thus the trinity: Father/God, Son/Human, Holy Spirit/Something in between. When Jesus appeared before Paul on the road to Damascus, he described Jesus' visage as a blinding light. And he was indeed blinded for the remainder of his life. When he returned to Jeruselem to get an audience with Peter, Peter thought he was nuts, but he was such a great talker and salesman, and very enthusiastic, that Peter wanted Paul on his side. He set him off on a mission to the hinterlands of pagans. He wound up in a little seaside town near Korinth with a bunch of open-minded folks (sort of like Laguna Beach, CA) and a like-minded wealthy couple and started Christianity as we know it, separate from Judaism. Up until then, the apostles thought of the movement as a refinement of Judaism.


David

Clivedurdle

Any comments about this from anyone?

Chili

Right, this Jesus was a not a person as we know it because his persona had died. Crucifixion was the method used to show that it is a non-rational event that is not our own human idea, nor is it ours to choose (ie. we cannot do it our selves because the very self must be annihilated). So religion creates the 'mental complex' (called Nazareth in the Gospels) that must achieve this. In Jn. 21:18 this mental complex is called "another [will tie you fast and carry you off against your will.]" Notice that Mary was in charge of 'the donkey' on their journey to Bethlehem.

It is fair to say that "Jesus got himself killed" if you include the notion that he was fully in charge of his own destiny . . . which can only be true if was consciously aware of his own destiny. The [seeming] paradox that this creates with "another will tie you fast" is removed at Epiphany where and when all is made clear. In other words, the idea that another will tie you fast leads to rebirth in Bethlehem and ends with Epiphany (most unlike 'altar calls' indeed). Same body with a new mind that leads to the renewal of the body. The humanity was a condition of being (hence the -ity) and was never real to start with. The human condition makes us sexual beings with an agenda of our own. This is good, of course, but also means that we live besides our own true self as animal man.

The holy spirit is redundant with the convergence of the twain mind (the dove descended just when Jesus said "the father and I are one" because they became one). Note that the Trinity is resolved already in what we call Purgatory (there Galilee) where Jesus meets his mother who is in charge of the HS while we are alienated from God (divided in our own mind wherein the father and son are twain but not twin). So if anything, in the Gospels Mary is the HS in person = female deity.

If Paul was alive today he would tell us that we've come a long way but it is time for a change.
The son was never human nor is humanity ever raised. The humanity was crucified and died but the riches of humanity are raised into heaven where they become the riches and glory of heaven in the particular (Rev. 14:13) and the assets of the mythology (our civilization) in the universal.

On the road to Damascus Paul had his Beatific Vision that blinded him as Saul but illuminated him as Paul. This was a similar event as what happened to Joseph when Christ was born unto him. In this sense was Paul the first manifestation of Peter who was the first pope and patron of faith in Christendom (Peter's insight was to become the rock of salvation). Paul was not so blind as he claimed to be but just reminds us of his old blindness as Saul. The sea-side town is a metaphor and so is Corinth. The message is that Paul knew his audience and knew it well = sea-side (unlike modern evangelists who try to broadside the gospel unto anybody and will use every trick in the book to get it there).

Note that Paul never started Christianity which itself is the end of religion. If anything, Paul started Catholicism as another religion that leads to Christianity in Christendom. In this sense did Catholicism replace Nazareth with the ever Blessed Virgin (she's as voluminous as Nazareth and then some) in the mind of the believer out of which Christ is born.